mozilla :: #sumo

19 May 2017
08:42lunao/
09:31Noahluna: Morning o/
09:34Noahmadalina: the platform meeting video is up [must be a new world record for that! :P] and it's working perfectly :)
09:34madalina_thanks noah!
09:34Noahnp! Thanks for whatever you did to make them upload it faster :D
10:13lunaNoah: morning
10:16Noahluna: hey are you a new sumo contributor? Sorry if I asked you that before, I have forgotten :)
10:28lunaNoah: nah been helping for around a couple of years when i have spare time does not do that much SuMo stuff however, mostly doing Swedish L10n for Firefox stuff
10:28luna:P
10:30Noahluna: oh hey that's awesome! Still helps us out :P So thanks for doing that ;)
10:35Noahoh wait. I know you. You usually go by Bittin :P Ok, now my memory is back
10:36lunayes i do
18:04SeburoHiya. When is the Fx57 meeting?
18:15NoahSeburo: soon I think :)
18:15Noahis irc only or in vidyo?
18:15Noah*is it
18:18SeburoNoah: Thanks. Not sure.
18:37alex_mayorgaSeburo: What is this wondrous meeting you talk about?
18:38Seburoalex_mayorga: Not 100% sure, of the details yet, but it is linked to Fx57.
18:39alex_mayorgaSeburo: Could you please share the Etherpad or Vidyo link?
18:39SeburoThere is not one (or the other)
18:40alex_mayorgaInteresting...
18:42Seburoalex_mayorga: It is the work on 57 that has been mentioned in recent SUMO meetings (just not quite sure what the work is).
18:42* alex_mayorga is a bit behind in SuMo meetings =/
18:49guigshi luna, good to see you online :-)
18:54NoahSeburo: did I miss anything? :)
18:55SeburoNoah: No, still not sure when this is starting.
18:55Seburoguigs: Hiya. When is the 57 meeting?
18:56guigsHi Seburo, it is more of an open question session.
18:56guigsI started an etherpad of resources that we can start from with some notes with the status of reaching out to the engineers leading the two main features.
18:58guigsSeburo, Noah, Caspy7, cynthiapereira, alex_mayorga feel free to take a look: https://public.etherpad-mozilla.org/p/sumo-firefox57-advocacy
19:00guigsIt has 3 steps to get started, however I would like to talk about some of the ways we can communicate which each person decides to work on.
19:00guigsAlot of the training material has been updated or is in the process of being updated.
19:00guigsFor example, there is a new bugzilla onboarding training that Emma did that is coming out in a few weeks on airmozilla.
19:01guigsAlso the release engineering part I would like to still ask philipp more about.
19:01guigsThese are just resources for background knowledge on how the other teams work when bringing a product to market.
19:03guigsFor example, the three teams that SUMo (the people who document and help people's issues), release engineering (the people who evaluate and prioritizes these issues based on feedback), and the Bugzilla/Triaging team (The people that manage the bug queue and the communication around a bug) all have different processes and tools that they use to do their
19:03guigsstuff.
19:03guigs^Is this helpful and what sort of questions are there that still need answering?
19:04guigsThis is the pilot and intended to be in irc, though we can move to vidyo if that is better?
19:06* Seburo is reading all the stuff
19:08Seburoguigs: Really sorry if I sound a bit confused, but what tasks will we be doing?
19:09guigsSeburo, right now it breath, I think the first steps might be what you have been doing with Nightly testing.
19:09guigsFor example, step one might be to download Nightly and get familiar with it at first.
19:10guigsThe tasks will unfold as we start to reach out to each of the teams that are bringing 57 to market.
19:10guigsFor example, we would need to find out when each of the features are going to be in Nightly and if they are hidden, what about:config or feature turns them on.
19:11guigsThe second task would be to start talking about the features that we are seeing in Nightly
19:12guigsWe would gather that feedback and summarize it to the correct audience.
19:12guigsFor example: if we notice that one of features causes stability issues we might get as much info as we can, file a bug with that info and bring it to the project manager
19:13guigsAs it rides the train we would bring it to release management
19:14guigsHowever, this is not a uniform process, and I believe some of you that were interested in the advocacy may already do some of this in a different way
19:14guigsAnd I think it would be really helpful to share with one another, with the goal in mind to get the teams talking to the community and the users that sumo helps.
19:15guigs(Speaking one anothers languages so to speak)
19:15guigsSeburo did I get off topic, sometimes I do that
19:16guigsOr maybe it needs to be called something other than a Task force?
19:17Seburoguigs: Not at all (I think). So this is really 1) using the product early, 2) reporting bugs, 3) reporting feedback 4) feeding back to SUMO community. Yeah, it sounds like what I have been (trying to) do with Nightly.
19:20guigsSeburo: what are some of your experiences when working with teams outside of sumo?
19:20guigs#3 and #4 I think are really interesting.
19:22Seburo(no idea how we do #3. Reporting bugs is BMO, giving positive feedback - no idea)
19:22SeburoDev teams or teams in general?
19:26guigsSeburo I think we can invite bwinton to an irc chat on Friday to ask him that.
19:26NoahSeburo: I was also hoping to use this new close relationship to delay the new preferences redesign until we have a better way to edit articles in Lithium since I suspect we'll be back on that in the fall
19:27guigsThere is the feedback channel "Firefox made me happpy/sad" in the product itself too, do people use that?
19:27Seburobwinton is good people.
19:27Noahso I'll have to make some connections and ask RelTeam and Firefox devs if this something they can agree on. Might have to rope Joni in on this too to see if she agrees
19:27Noah*Relman
19:27SeburoNoah: Agreed, but there are changes to about:preferences already in Nightly (55)
19:28Noahoh boy. which ones? Now I have to look :X
19:29Seburonoah: fewer categories, longer pages.
19:29NoahI mean if they haven't landed on beta yet we still hold off or pref it off (if there's a pref to disable it)
19:29Noahah yup! That's what I talking about :P
19:29Noahthought they did more changes
19:30Seburoguigs: I find it hard to approach teams, better to have key contacts, but as a contributor I have to expect that people will not respond. I think it would help if we had a list of key people that some of us could reach out to (to avoid them being swamped).
19:30SeburoNoah: What sort of thing do you mean?
19:31Noahguigs: I think they do. And we still collect those results and can view them in those Surveymonkey data graphs
19:32Seburoguigs: I have an idea about this I was going to bring up (it is on your list) at San Franzilla.
19:32NoahSeburo: ah my understanding is if something hasn't gone to beta, it's easier to delay it's uplift to release until another time of their choosing. Or maybe create a pref to disable it by default and flip it on when we've sorted our Lithium KB issues
19:34Noahdid I answer the right question? :P I'm expecting some resistance/objection to the idea but I should email Joni today to see if she agrees. Then she can back this :)
19:35SeburoNoah: (There are issues with the Lithium KB?!?) Some stuff is pref'ed (no idea what the prefs are) but some of it is turned on by default. In the past few days a few things which were prefed seem to have been set to "on" in Nightly. If we have people using Nightly for this project, it would be handy to have a list of these prefs (not sure if I am allowed to add this to guigs etherpad).
19:41guigsSeburo: please feel free to edit the etherpad
19:42NoahSeburo: yeah, exactly. I have zero issues with letting them add & test preferences changes [although I am questioning some of the placements! different issue tho :P]. Just would like to afford us as much time as possible to update all relevant KB articles b/c this is going to change a lot of them! :)
19:43Noahand maybe I could influence some better arrangment of the about:preferences changes
19:44guigsNoah: Mozillazine had an about:config reference, and I currently have an addon, however did mdn document it recently too?
19:44guigsWe could add those references to not have to reinvent the wheel?
19:45Noahinteresting. Didn't know it might be documented on MDN. let me if I can find anything there
19:46guigsNoah: if not, then that is a hint for me to get some more coffee ;-)
19:46SeburoI heard that the add-on was not taking new prefs(?). Have added comment at the bottom of the etherpad.
19:47Noahguigs: lol xD thanks for all your hard on this btw! :D
19:47Noah*hard work
19:48guigsSeburo: that would make sense, it has not updated in a while. However I was only using it on beta
19:48NoahSeburo: which addon might that be? I thought I was up-to-date on all my TestPilot experiments
19:49SeburoNoah: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/firefox/addon/config-descriptions/?src=search
19:50SeburoIt will not install in Nightly.
19:50guigsNoah: thank you, I think sharing this knowledge will really beneficial, plus 57 is going to be a big release
19:51guigsBetter to get involved early than be surprised imho
19:52guigsSeburo, Noah: good chat, I will summarize and send out an email with the etherpad for more feedback over the week. Does this time next week work for you if I try to ask bwinton to join?
19:53Seburoguigs: What would he be joining us to talk about? (Just so I know what to ask(!))
19:54SeburoOh right, where/how to give positive feedback. Sure, good idea!
19:54guigsSeburo: I do not know that part yet. however I will have more details once I get a chance to chat.
19:55guigsI am thinking it might be around: what overlaps are there between sumo and the team and what is the best way to collaborate on feedback as the feature is implemented.
19:56guigsFOr example, what I do know, is that the design fo rthe product is pretty set, but the user experience is a big piece I think sumo can contribute to (also mhoye mentioned this)
19:57Seburo+1 good idea. (have added another thing to bottom of etherpad)
19:57SeburoI think there is a very real risk that lots of work will be done to make the new UI "better" and that SUMO has to deal with users that cannot find anything.
19:58guigsDare I mention australis?
19:58guigskk gotta run, thank you Seburo and Noah, back in an hour
19:59Seburoguigs: lol. No problem, this has been really useful. :-)
20:00Noahguigs: Friday at this time sounds good to me :)
20:01guigsNoah: awesome, because I need your brain :-)
20:03Noahhaha you'll have it there :D I should really write up my ideas on how to better shape those prefs placements too!
20:03* Noah adds it his to-do list
20:06Noahguigs: also thanks for those reassuring comments at the end there. Glad to know the user experience is open to SUMO's ideas here. Of course, I'll throw the ideas out there and see if my fellow contributors like them :)
20:20SeburoNoah: Are you using Nightly?
20:27NoahSeburo: I am ;)
20:27SeburoThere is already signs of Photon around the awesome bar
20:28NoahI was actually using it religiously for over 10 years as my main browser before I jumped back on the release bandwagon in 2015 to fully test it out and see what performance was like for regular users ;)
20:29NoahI still dual load nightly and release though. But I'm inching back towards making Nightly full time again
20:29SeburoNightly is stable enough to use as a main browser.
20:30Noahoooh I gotta see what that looks like. Photon feels a little jarring for me. But maybe it won't look that bad on Win 8. I don't like Win 10's styling of windows and browsers at all :P
20:31Noahoh most definitely! And I would always say that back then. But we did have our times when a few builds would get crashy and stay crashy for a few days until a patch came in. And of course, some crazy bustage that would affect something in your daily routine but thankfully that kind of stuff got backed out fairly quick
20:34SeburoThat still happens. There was a weird issue with awesome bar display that was fixed yesterday.
20:35SeburoThe Photon elements are really small right now. The three dot menu is the most obvious.
21:14SeburoNoah: I am turning in. This 57 stuff looks exciting. Chat soon, bye :-)
20 May 2017
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