mozilla :: #sumo

14 Mar 2017
04:24mosesAre there any etherpads for SUMO platform meetings?
04:26Noahhey moses, there used to be but we switched to Google Docs for a reason I'm forgetting now. Anyway let me link you to what we're using :)
04:27mosesNoah: thanks! Didn't know about the change.
04:28Noahthe bonus is all the previous meetings all are located in a single document so it makes reading past notes much easier ;)
04:29mosesNoah: Awesome, I love binge reading platform notes :D bookmarking that to my infinitely expanding SUMO folder.
04:31Noahmoses: lol enjoy it all. There's also recordings of the meetings on airmo if you're interested too ;)
04:31Noahlooks like we made the switch to the Gdoc on Sept. 1st last year
04:32mosesI was gone during that time so it makes sense why I didn't hear about it.
14:18Tonnesnothing happening in kb land?
16:00illirxHello. Starting firefox with a blank page, connections to, amazon technologies EDGECAST-NETBLK-03 are initiated. Why???*
19:16SeburoHello SUMO
19:18Noahevening Seburo
19:20Tonnespelase fix the articles so they don't show up as forum topics and to prevent me from getting spammed
19:21Tonnes4 today
19:21Tonnesplease kill 1 user
19:21TonnesYou have received a private message in the Mozilla Support Community community.
19:21TonnesSubject: **bleep** you
19:21TonnesFrom: j8hnny
19:21TonnesDate: 14-03-2017 12:07 PM
19:21Tonnesnice to be sweared at after years of contributing
19:21Tonnesshould be fixed a months ago IMO
19:21* Tonnes turns of PMs again
19:27Tonnes"Computers, bits and their ability to manage them are pretty fast nowadays. It's usually people or processes slowing them down."
19:32guigsTonnes happy to help with the user,.
19:38guigsTonnes consider the user banned.
20:20NoahTonnes: where are some of those articles that are showing up as forum topics? maybe I can move some of them
20:21philippthe reply at indicates that they may have to be recreated manually
20:21firebotBug 1321830 REOPENED, Wiki Articles appearing in Forums
20:33guigsNoah philipp: Do you have any insight on preserving the kudos weight if they are copy/pasted?
20:34guigsBecause if it does matter, I have to get a list together for the allocated kudos for each user in each article
20:34guigsI talked to Cynthia and it did not matter much for articles templates, but I might predict that this is not the case for the articles.
20:38Noahguigs: hmm it might matter but I feel like if it isn't a large amount of kudos for the user, they we can skip manually carrying over the kudos
20:42Noahphilipp: do you know if Lithium allows @ characters in a username? I remember during our user account migration you found out there were collisions and I'm wondering if it was noted somewhere that you can't use an email as a username in Lithium
20:43Tonnesguigs: thanks
20:43TonnesNoah: one exampe: and
20:44TonnesI think the forum copy should not even exist - it even turns up on top in G search
20:44Tonnesand this is just one
20:44Noahoh boy
20:44Tonneslots of products support links not working, as well as otyhers from e.g. (click "Check the sys reqs")
20:45Tonnesand lots of display issues
20:45Tonnesas well as no way to localize / uipdate / see dashboard stats
20:46Tonnesall I see is people talking about kudos and badges, which are (IMO) totally useless and irrelevant
20:46Tonnescontent should matter
20:46NoahTonnes: is there a search trick you've found to find misplaced articles? this is going to really suck if it has to be done by visiting forum topics manually
20:46Tonnesnot that I know of
20:46Tonnesthere should be at least one skilled engineer able to find out what went wrong and fix it
20:46Tonnes...or the one responsible, I;d say
20:46Tonnesor one(s) :)
20:47Tonnesthis is not a localizer task
20:47philippNoah: yes, for what i know the @ is not allowed in usernames
20:47Tonnesif it was up to me, I'd do a Lithium day (about a months ago) and fix all issues
20:48TonnesI really, really don't understand
20:48Tonnesmy templates are gone and appear to reside in a German folder for some reason, another issue
20:48Tonnescan go on and on
20:53Tonnesbad thing about displayed "KB to forum topics" is they disclose article history talk
20:53Tonnessoo unprofessional
20:53TonnesOK I'll stop for the day
20:56Tonnesbtw Lithium isn't really intended fro KB but obviously limited to (or at least better in providing) discussion forums, so someone should have seen this coming
20:57guigsTonnes: to address the templates issue, I think we can add some permissions to your account temporarily to fix it.
20:57Tonnesguigs: so I should fix things myself?
20:59guigsTonnes: I see that you are the expert where they need to go. I feel like you would do a much better job than I. I am happy to help another way if you can provide the links to move?
21:00TonnesI'm not an expert at all
21:00Tonnesand sorry to say but at this point, or rather from the beginning last month, I don;t feel urged or even reluctant to help out with patchwork
21:01guigs(all good intentions here) the permissions show a feature called batch processing that let you check boxes in search to move articles by bulk.
21:01TonnesI localize, and I think I do it reasonably well. This is a top riority, and the mess there is right now is even worse than I expected and even predicted
21:01Tonnesit's not my task to fix issues caused by others
21:02Tonnesand I can't even continue doing the things I did for the past 6 years
21:02Tonnescan't see what changed in English and keep things up to date, so can't gurarantee quality
21:02guigsI agree, is there a bug you can direct me to or particular articles provided that I can help move them to the proper place?
21:02Tonnesnot that I know of
21:03Tonnesplease understand, what you are all doing is patchwork
21:03Tonneswe don't need no patches
21:03Tonneswe need an organized and proper technical way of migrating (if needed in the first place)
21:03Tonneswith a rollback scenario
21:04Tonnesusers and contributors are treated as guinea pigs IMO
21:04TonnesI'm used to letting people fix stuff they messed up
21:04Tonnesnot blaming you personally
21:05Tonnesthis is so frustrating
21:05Tonneswe'll never, I repeat, never get to the level Kitsune had qith regards to KB quality and content as well as ease for its contributors
21:06Tonnesyou may have heard I basically decided to quit my contributions to sumo because all of this
21:06Tonnesand some other contributors may think alike
21:06guigsI understand the frustration, and do not want to ignore it. However I really do want to help, can you point me to the articles that need to move?
21:07Tonnesthis is about the worst thing everhappening at mozilla IMO, and its decisions being made
21:07Tonnesno I can;t
21:07guigsRolling back would also create another issue with the last month of changes to be gone.
21:07Tonnesthat would mean I need to check lots of stuff
21:07Tonnesand even worse: it may fix our locale, but this ia ageneral issues probably valid for others as well
21:08Tonnesbesides you may have tools or other assets to find out sooner, or the folks at lithium
21:08Tonnesyou had a perfect KB and its content hadn't you? (or we)
21:08Tonneshow should I know what is wrog at Lithium's end?
21:09TonnesI hate patchwork - unless it can be applied withing 5 or 10 minutes and all issues can be solved oon after - and prefer a more professional approach
21:10Tonneslithium should have bee a shadow copy of kitsune and have been tested for months, making sure it offered everything we had and was causing no issues
21:10Tonnesthe switch, and if it didn;t work as expected, switch back and fix
21:10Tonnesthen try again
21:12Tonnesthere should be no changes in the last month at all
21:12Tonnesno KPB changes at least
21:12Tonnesbewised, locales don;t see them and ca't update
21:13Tonnesif it is about the forum, well I never understood its weight, i.e. why that's such an important part
21:14Tonnesit might have been best to split things up, use litium for forum only, and leave kitsune untouched
21:14Tonnesfor the KB
21:18pmcclardTonnes: I appreciate your feedback. We did not have an option to keep kitsune up and running it was either Lithium or another KB/Forum vendor.
21:19Tonnespmcclard: why was there no option, and did anyone object at all in the first place?
21:20Tonnesand even then, I think things should have been tested thoroughly until there would be no issues, or hardly any
21:21Tonnes6 people involved for 6 months and this is the result?
21:21Tonnessory I don't want to step on toes
21:22pmcclardYes, most of last year was spent trying to get resources within Mozilla to continue supporting Kitsune. We were being loaned developers from the Firefox team. With no development team Kitsune was only getting attention if it broke and it was a painful process to get things fixed.
21:23Tonnesbut it worked, didn't it? and (just curious) how do you feel about all your time and energy spent for the past few years in getting kitsune issues fixed?
21:23TonnesI know you may think differently since you are paid staff
21:24Tonnesbut regardless of that.. if this wa shapening at my job, I would heaviliy object
21:24Tonnesand as a contributor, I hate to see several sumo bugs of mine closed just because of this
21:24Tonnesit reminds me of all wasted time and energy
21:26Tonneseither way, I didn't expect to see sumo like it is currently is, one month after migrating
21:26Tonnesbasic features lack and obvuious issues aren;t fixed since they apaprently are so hard to fix
21:26TonnesI need to stop
21:26Tonnessorry again
21:27Tonnesappeciate your replies and understanding tho
21:28pmcclardWe certainly share your frustrations. Each day my team meets to discuss these issue and prioritize what we can do to make things right.
21:28pmcclardAt the moment our primary focus is getting In-product redirects working properly.
21:31pmcclardThe articles appearing in forums needs to be fixed as well.
21:34pmcclardAnd I probably moved your templates into the German folder. I had asked rachel to give you access to batch move content, so you could move the templates where they need to be.
21:35philippdutch and german might look quite similar for the untrained eye :-P
21:35pmcclardThere's a ton of stuff to be sorted out on Lithium, so any help that our community can offer would be appreciate
21:35pmcclardMy eye is the most untrained philipp
21:37pmcclardAt least when it comes to dutch and german
21:37philippthat shall be excused
21:38philippwrongly filed templates don't sound like the highest priority atm
21:39SeburoCan people see this?
21:40NoahSeburo: I can see you :)
21:40SeburoNoah: Thanks. Just tried to respond to someone in #firefox and got a message saying I could not post to that channel.
21:41philippwhat have you done there to get banned? *g*
21:41SeburoI honestly have no idea. :-(
21:43philippjust kidding. i think i had experienced this a couple of times as well. restarting TB helped in those cases if i'm not mistaken (it was already a while back)
21:44Caspy7Seburo: what message did you get? Was it about caps?
21:45Caspy7were you replying to QWERTY?
21:45Seburophilipp: Ok, thanks. I have dropped a query into #moc just in case, then I will try a Tb restart.
21:45SeburoCaspy7: I got "You cannot send messages to #firefox.". Yes, I was replying to that user...oh, I get it.
21:46Caspy7funny, I would expect: #firefox Your message cannot contain more than 50% capital letters if it's longer than 5 characters
21:50Caspy7hm, wonder how necessary bug 1343669 is
21:50firebot NEW, Update Agent tracking bug
21:51SeburoCrumbs. Possibly a good idea to help manage the work. Feels like a big change.
21:52NoahCaspy7: me too. I still get that error about the capital letters. Just tested in #firefox
21:52NoahI'll ask in #moc if we can finally get that removed. Was almost successful a few months ago but when glob tried to remove it the command wasn't working for some reason
21:53ashleeNoah: can you file a bug?
21:54ashleeor Caspy7 ^
21:54Noahashlee: ah I was just about to reply to you in #moc :P sure, what product & component? :)
21:55ashleeNoah: moc service requests for now
21:56Caspy7Noah: you want to remove the caps restriction entirely?
21:56philippWHY NOT?
21:56Caspy7it does actually help with spam
21:56Caspy7just today it did actually
21:57Caspy7one issue with it though is that it considers spaces as caps
21:57Caspy7maybe 5 characters is too few, or it needs altered some other way, I'm just not completely sure it needs gone
21:59NoahCaspy7: well I considered that too but for months we've been fine I thought
21:59Noahbut yeah 5 characters is definitely too short
21:59Noahphilipp: lol
22:00Caspy7Noah: I think the much more serious matter is that we keep perma banning who happened to paste too many lines of code in
22:00Caspy7it's not like it's a discoverable rule for people
22:01Caspy7can't say, "Well, you should have read the topic." cause it's not there
22:02Noahyeah, that's where irc could use a special mode that detects too many incoming lines of text from someone then warns that person to use pastebin or risk being banned
22:32Caspy7so it looks like there's going to be a separate executable for downloading updates and a separate process for sending crash pings
22:35SeburoIt is getting late here so I am going to head off. Hope to be back soon, bye :-)
23:53NoahCaspy7: hmm where'd you read that?
23:57Caspy7one sec
23:58Caspy7Noah: this week in Firefox (or whatever it's called) ...I'm currently skimming to see the bugs I found that in
23:59Caspy7bug 1343669
23:59firebot NEW, Update Agent tracking bug
23:59Caspy7bug 1336360
23:59firebot ASSIGNED, Use the PingSender for sending pings when the browser shuts down
23:59Caspy7Noah: ^
15 Mar 2017
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Last message: 14 days and 7 hours ago