mozilla :: #sumo

13 Jul 2017
00:11timc*yawn* good morning sumoers :)
07:38philipphi, anyone with kb review rights in the channel?
07:39philippif yes, could you review
07:41Noahphilipp: sure can ;)
07:42philippthank you, pleas proof-read it as i put it together in a hurry
07:46philippthanks noah!
07:51Noahphilipp: done! And you're welcome! Thanks for writing it up so fast! :D
10:10Caspy7Just saw a post that implicates Bitdefender as slowing down Firefox
10:26NoahCaspy7: thanks! I also witnessed some high memory usage on youtube livestreams when the chat module is open. If you close, it almost instantly stops the runaway memory increase and brings it back down to a much lower amount
10:27NoahNeed to test it on nightly though to see how bad the effect is there
10:27Caspy7Noah: that seems like something that should be looked into. I imagine the Flow people might like more on that
10:28Noahyup. I'll do some more testing, especially on nightly, to make sure it's reproducible
10:29Noahanyone to CC in particular from the Flow team on any bug I end up filing on this?
10:30Noahalso our friend at Ghacks didn't disappoint:
10:32Caspy7they never do
10:40NoahCaspy7: there's also this new issue that's cropped up:
10:41Caspy7Noah: is that not blacklisted??
10:41Caspy7it's a known crash caused by a specific version of a widely distributed addon
10:41Noahstarted near the end of June but has flared up since Tuesday. Background story:
10:41firebotBug 1376831 REOPENED, Startup crash in cmdshim32.dll@0x135b (Comodo, Windows 10)
10:43Noahapparently Comodo fixed it with some hotfixes in a fairly quick fashion and the crash rates started to decline
10:47Caspy7Noah: then we should blacklist the unpatched version :P
10:48Noahexactly :D
10:49philippCaspy7: it's not an addon unfortunately
10:49NoahI imagine if the startup crashes get too high, they will blocklist it. But I'm not sure what the addon blocklisting criteria is before they decide it's urgent. Probably "x amount of crashes is too high, let's not wait & blocklist immediately"
10:49Caspy7philipp: I see, can we blacklist the DLL?
10:49philippit's the dll of an external program hooking into the firefox process
10:49philippwe have a dll blocklisting mechanism but it doesn't work for this module
10:50philippi was testing it this morning
10:50Noah^ yes, that. Haven't we done that before? I do remember hearing though that DLL blocklist is complicated at times & they like to avoid doing it as much as possible. Especially since there are ways to get around/bypass it :/
10:50Caspy7philipp: any idea how we can stop this in the future?
10:51philipphope & pray perhaps^^
10:51Caspy7I don't hear about this happening to Chrome or IE
10:51philippchrome was affected as well
10:51philipp32bit i guess
10:51Noahhmm technically wasn't us ripping out plugin support supposed to stop this cold-turkey? :P
10:52NoahBut I guess since we're open source it doesn't stop them completely from learning how to hook into our process
10:52Noah\o/ finally Chrome suffers as well!
10:53Caspy7I suspect Chrome is OSS enough via Chromium in this case to allow for the similar issue
10:54Caspy7though, I don't really know if being open source was the issue here
10:54Noahyeah, I was thinking the same. I've also just wondering at this moment if Brave's code is open source?
10:56Caspy7I left a comment
10:56firebotBug 1376831 REOPENED, Startup crash in cmdshim32.dll@0x135b (Comodo, Windows 10)
10:57Caspy7I suspect Brave is open. At the very least pretty sure they derive from chromium
10:58Caspy7Noah: wikipedia says: Brave is a free and open-source web browser based on the Chromium web browser and its Blink engine
11:00Noahah thanks
11:00Caspy7which isn't too surprising. I figured that was the case
11:02Caspy7ironically, we'd mitigate a significant part of this issue for users if every 64 bit user were on 64 bit firefox
11:05Noahand also if all Windows users didn't receive updates all at the same time. Really tired of the "a Windows update/hotfix caused my browser to crash" situation :/
11:08philipp :-)
11:22Caspy7philipp: I'm still a bit groggy for making clear decisions, but you figure this is big enough maybe I should make a reddit post? I can link to the sumo post Noah linked me to
11:24philippi have only seen a single thread on reddit about this (but many dozens on sumo), so it may be that reddit users are more technically inclined and have taken roc's advice to heart. so i don't think we need to have sthg up on reddit necessarily
11:26philippcurrently it feels like the # of incoming questions about this is decreasing - if it starts rising again i might ask an admin to display a banner on top of sumo for a couple of days
11:41NoahCaspy7: you may feel free to do it preemptively since I feel like you might encounter some reddit threads about it. But you could also do a wait & see approach. If you get more questions about it later today, I'd definitely post about it Reddit
11:41Noah*about it on Reddit
16:07guigsPlatform meeting
16:07guigsCheck it out!
16:07guigsTune into the vidyo sumo room
16:08safwanguigs: Whats the room?
16:08guigsvideo link =>
16:08guigssafwan^ SUMO
16:18safwanJust to add, I am together with giorgos to have kitsune a better home
16:18safwanworking together
16:18safwanWe are dockerizing it so we can move it to AWS
16:20safwanmadalina: ^^
16:21madalinasafwan thanks for the update
16:21madalinathat's awesome!!
16:22safwanSo before 57, we are hoping to have a safer home for SUMO
16:40cynthiapereirasafwan: Thanks for that! I am following your issue on Github and now I have a copy of kitsune running locally here. :-)
16:56safwancynthiapereira: Cool. Thats my pleasure
17:05Tonnestoo bad AliceW isn't on irc
17:07philippshe's very responsive to PMs if you want to reach her
17:11Tonnesyes, already sent one
17:24Tonnesthe point is that an artcile was opened for l10n but contains some flaws so some localizers start doing their thing, obviously without noticing or reporting. I don't like that, and neither will localizers when such edit is approved afterwards.
17:24* Tonnes thinking of a way to prevent that
17:25Tonnesoh she just approved :)
17:27andrewtruongTonnes: I'm still around if you need reviews ;)
17:27Tonnesperhaps a warning about revisions pending while doing a 1st translation would help
17:28Tonnesandrewtruong: thanks.. this one may be tricky though as it passed marketing and Alice already tweaked it, so thought she might be the only one allowed to approve :)
17:30Tonness/ passed screenshots team
17:39guigsQQ where is a good place to post a community resource share?
17:49Tonnes a what?
17:52guigsTonnes: Kind of like a central location where different communities running events can pull from. An example of what would be in the resource share would be a slide deck explainng sumo in their language.
17:53guigsAnother example might be educational tools like where to find more about bugzilla or tips and tricks for answering questions
17:53Tonnesah I see
17:53guigsIt might be a bit too vague.
17:53TonnesI wouldn't be the best to know at this point
17:58andrewtruongmaybe and link to it on sumo?
18:31guigsandrewtruong: awesome, I think we may need a bit more in there though:
18:36* Tonnes doesn't really like G docs and ignores them
18:38* guigs makes not to make this content more friendly - sheets definitely strains the eyes
18:38guigsThis is why I am not a writer ;-)
18:53Caspy7guigs: you mean the white docs?
18:54guigsCaspy7: more or less yep
18:54Caspy7yeah, same here, I use a dark filter on everything
18:54Caspy7same for IRC. Everything gets the dark treatment
18:54guigsCaspy7: is there one for google for work apps?
18:55Caspy7guigs: just did a search and it looks like there are a few
18:56guigsCaspy7: is it 55 or 56 that userstyles may no longer work?
18:56guigsI am thinking of the new chrome extentions and xul going away news I keep hearing in one ear
18:56Caspy7guigs: this should work just fine with Stylus
18:57guigsCaspy7: awesome, ty!
18:58Caspy7Stylus is based on the last webextension release (Chrome store) of Stylish before the original Dev sold it and they started mucking things up and turning on spying
18:58Caspy7It won't have chrome access, but can manage styling pages just fine
19:22NoahI was wondering about that whole Stylish situation. I remember something about them using ads but now spying? Oh boy
19:24Caspy7Noah: I believe "telemetry" in the Chrome store world is code for sending back every URL you visit to our servers
19:43NoahCaspy7: ouch! Maybe people finally had enough. Re: The increased hate towards Google Analytics
19:49SeburoHi. Is there any official answer to the ghacks thing?
19:51philipphey seburo, secreenshots will receive an update and get disabled during private browsing mode - may be worth sneaking that into your article
19:52Seburophilipp: Screenshots is disabled in private browsing?
19:53philippyes, or it will be after next update in a couple of days
19:55Seburophilipp: Ok, thanks. I will do an edit, are you able to hang around to approve it?
19:55Caspy7it's like bookmarks - you did it
19:55philippSeburo: don't have kb rights myself
19:56philippbut there's usually always someone picking it up quite quickly
19:59Seburovesper: Hi. Sorry about this, but it look like there is going to be an edit going through for the screenshots article.
20:21Seburophilipp: Thanks for the heads up. I have added a one liner that can easily be removed if the bug gets fixed at a later date.
20:22NoahSeburo: do you need something reviewed?
20:25SeburoNoah: This, if you are able to> Please can you include the flag for l10n if you are happy to sign it off. Appreciate the help. :-)
20:25Noahsure, np
20:28NoahSeburo: might if I add: "We are working on this feature for future releases." right after your sentence?
20:28andrewtruongSeburo: Noah: can we link to the bug?
20:29Noahstole that from the github issue :P
20:30NoahI would like to but I don't know if we usually do that in "Learn More" articles. Might be seen as us looking sloppy/unprofessional or something :P
20:30SeburoNoah: I want to keep it to one line as this may not be around for long. How about "Firefox Screenshots will currently not work if you using Private Browsing."?
20:31Seburoandrewtruong: I would rather not link to a bug in an article about a new feature. :-) This issue is not expected to be around forever, this is just a quick cover-our-back fix to the article.
20:35NoahSeburo: Hmm I have the gut feeling this languish around for a while. The only reason I'd like to add the reassuring quip I pilfered from one of the dev's github comments :P
20:35Noahbut yes I like that tweak. But is this sitting well with you? "Firefox Screenshots will currently not work if you're using Private Browsing. We are working on this feature for future releases."
20:36Noahthat's the planned messaging they will use per the Github comment
20:36SeburoNoah: Which github? Have you a link handy?
20:37Tonneswhen at it, it may be good to add a note how to disable Screenshots before such questions pop up in the forum
20:40Tonnesand perhaps make a {note} of it being disabled in PM. Side note: "if you using"?
20:40* Seburo once again wishes he had not started writing an article.
20:40Tonnes:) no, please continue doing so
20:41SeburoNoah: Okay. Sounds good to me.
20:42NoahSeburo: lol now you've seen my fears xD
20:42NoahTonnes: yes, caught that. Fixing ;)
20:43Seburonothing compared to those that I have.
20:43Tonnes describes a way to disable it
20:43SeburoTonnes: When you mean disable...what kind of scenario?
20:44Tonneswell, it will be included by default in Firefox iof I get that well, so as with Pocket and other "plugins" people werent expecting to see there as an add-on, the question on how to disable it may come up.
20:45Tonnesnote that it stores data on some server so they may start worrying or nagging about it
20:45SeburoTonnes: In discussion with the Screenshots team, we are holding fire on including an about:config pref as that mean including "this is for advanced users" type test. Users can just customise the toolbar to remove the icon from view. Data security policies are already included.
20:46Tonnesah ok, better than nothing :) - similar to pocket so to speak
20:47Tonnesmaybe incude that instead? (customize...)
20:47SeburoTonnes: That would just lead to l10n issues. We customiSe in the UK. :-)
20:48Tonnesjust refeRing to a way of how to "disable" it ;)
20:49SeburoI think the article is fine as it is now. Put the mouse down, step away from the edit button....
20:51Tonnesas you wish, it's your"article. but note that there is for this reason and expect support questions
20:53SeburoI take your point, but I think with Pocket it was the link with a separate company that may not have helped. Not wanting to have Joni and Vesper throwing things at me for creating lots of edits, let's keep that as a back up plan.
20:54* Tonnes doesn't like that article's helpfulness rate but thinks that's because of missing pref info that would disable it entirely
20:55* Seburo is now a Pocket user...and likes it.
20:56Tonnesseveral edits aren't that bad as long as they don't get approved for l10n very soon, though adding all there is to know or users may wonder about is a good thing that will prevent the number of edits, of course
20:57Tonnesknowing some localizers have been nagging about "lots of workload" not very long ago, I think the article could also wait to get marked RFL since it's for 55 anyway
20:58TonnesI don't really care about that, hail to the edits and updates :)
20:58Tonnesnut I;m trying to think like a regular user lately
20:58Tonnesbut I'm ^
20:59Tonnesso during l10n I wondered what a marker poitn was, and how to disable the feature
21:05Tonnesanyone using TB nightly other than on windows btw?
21:06SeburoTonnes: I tried to install it in Ubuntu, but I think it made it look like I was running a DOS attack on IRC. On the to-do list to try again.
21:07Tonnesah :)
21:07philippguigs: your google form is inaccessible for non mozilla-staff :-P
21:07* guigs one sec
21:08Tonneswhy g docs anyway?
21:08guigsTonnes: that is what Mozilla has as a tool, is there another tool?
21:09Tonnesmost likely
21:09* guigs philipp can refresh the document now :-)
21:09philipptoo tired to fill it out today though :-)
21:10Tonnescan't help but just dislike almost anything about G, regardless of those docs hanging FF. It's bad enough I use a gmail address for moz stuff
21:10Tonnesperhap moz should create its own tool?
21:17cynthiapereiraTonnes: Hey, I just remembered this article about practicing "open" at Mozilla, if you have time take a look.
21:18Caspy7guigs: I'm very tired and my list of todos gets too long. Also I don't use gdocs *much*. So if you settle on one of those styles, feel free to let me know and I'll give it a go.
21:20SeburoCaspy7: Hiya. I have not forgotten about that point at All-Hands and did ask about it. Feel free to drop me a PM when it is good for you (appreciate that may not be now).
21:22Tonnescynthiapereira: thanks.. just read it but... I'm not against openness if that's your point, it's just thing slike tools and storage locations that I worry about. For some reason some open source organization think they should rely on certain companies, and that's what worries me
21:23Tonnesif you think like "we should do fine without _any_ company", you get the point ;)
21:23Caspy7Seburo: thanks
21:23guigsCaspy7: will do, ty!
21:27guigsSeburo: hey did you get my email?
21:28Seburoguigs: Yes. Thank you, appreciate it. :-)
21:29guigsSeburo: ditto
21:36cynthiapereiraTonnes: I was thinking more about why Mozilla is not building its own tool. I totally understand your point. I've friends who do not use Google stuff at all and sometimes it is hard to find tools that they can use to work together. :-(
21:38Tonnesyep, agree.. well I would try to find another way to share data and not rely on uncle G ;)
21:39SeburoLibreoffice has produced a cloud version...with another company, but it is a paid type product like MS Office.
22:11Noahcynthiapereira: Tonnes: I also hate that you can not right-click > Cut, Copy or Paste inside in a GDoc! They show you a menu on right-click then give you a annoying dialog telling you to use a keyboard shortcut instead. It's 2017! And no one, even the big G, knows how to fix this?
22:11NoahPlease someone step up and give Google some competition here & fix that bug while you're at it, you'll have tons of users ;)
22:12TonnesI wouldn't know really. Im giving enough to G on a daily basis ;)
22:13SeburoNoah: Agreed. I have the same problem with it.
22:13Tonnesafk, g'night
22:13Noahnight o/
22:14SeburoTonnes: night :-)
22:46SeburoI am turning in myself. Bye :-)
14 Jul 2017
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Last message: 69 days and 14 hours ago