mozilla :: #sumo

14 Aug 2017
15:07Caspy7vesper: you around?
15:19vesperCaspy7: hey, yes
15:19Caspy7vesper: was just dealing with someone in #firefox who lost all their tabs and history...and half asleep. Was seeing if there's a workaround. Do you know?
15:19Caspy7think it may be bug 1388628
15:19firebothttps://bugzil.la/1388628 ASSIGNED, dao+bmo@mozilla.com Tabs are all restored as blank frequently
15:21vesperCaspy7: from what I've read, the hotfixes until .3 should solve all issues with missing 'stuff'
15:21vesperand get some sleep, dear sir! :-)
15:21Caspy7vesper: what about restoring it?
15:21Caspy7I just woke. I have health problems.
15:23Caspy7vesper: do you know what bug number?
15:24vesperhttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1388584 was the one that Roland referenced
15:24firebotBug 1388584 FIXED, bugmail@asutherland.org Firefox constantly freezes, not responding, bookmarks lost, all bookmark commands do not function.
15:24vesperCaspy7: ^^
15:25Caspy7I found bug 1388628
15:25Caspy7thanks
17:56Seburohi
18:04Caspy7o/
18:26SeburoCaspy7: Hiya. Just watching the weekly meeting.
18:27Caspy7oh, I always forget about that until after
18:27Caspy7I'm probably too sleepy brained to focus on it atm...
18:27Caspy7Seburo: when did it start?
18:27SeburoCaspy7: It just finished. Nothing really major this week.
18:28Caspy7ok, thanks
18:56Tonnescan someone unmark https://support.mozilla.org/questions/1165683 as a solution?
18:57SeburoTonnes: I will see what I can do.
18:58Tonnesthanks (I don't know who marked it as such)
18:58SeburoSorted.
19:02Tonnesgrazie mille
19:48Seburoguigs: Hiya. Happy new week! Just seen this and am thinking about 57 > https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1171278 (I like the users use of a theme and the add-ons, looks like a Fx fan)
19:55Caspy7Seburo: I'm confused by this. What are they talking about that changed?
19:56Caspy7I don't readily know of any UI updates in 56
19:56SeburoToolbars and general style. Even if there is not a big change, people will try to compare us against the opposition.
19:56rolandtanglaoguigs: guigs is on vacaction today Seburo
19:57rolandtanglaoer Seburo^
19:57Caspy7Seburo: I guess I'd have to see a side by side. I don't know what changed between 55 & 56
19:57Seburorolandtanglao: Ok, thanks for the info. :-) (Happy new week to you as well!)
19:58rolandtanglaohappy new week all!
19:58SeburoCaspy7: They may not be directly looking at 56, but more of an in general type comment.
20:02Caspy7I don't have an intuitive sense for this type of thing apparently, but I'm under the impression it looks more like Edge. Also, the tab shapes are nothing like Chrome
20:17TylerSeburo: I saw that post and I wondered what they were talking about too. 56 doesn't have any style changes compared to 55, 54, 53, or previous
20:19rolandtanglaoseburo you have a new workaround ffor focus for android right? please share details here or by email!
20:19SeburoTyler: Hiya. I know, but just as with Australis, we are going to face some comparisons/negative feedback. I just do not know what the "company line" is for these right now.
20:20Seburorolandtanglao: Not too keen on looking stupid if I have this wrong. Mind if I drop you a PM?
20:20rolandtanglaoheh
20:20TylerSeburo: it's gonna happen. and the world will keep spinning :) in all honestly though, I think 57 is going to have less negative reactions than australis did
20:20rolandtanglaosure Seburo
20:22SeburoTyler: I agree. There may be one or two stress points, but I think it will land much softer.
20:50SeburoTyler: ...? https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1171393
20:50Seburo:-)
20:51TylerSeburo: absolutely. so True. We are going to block every work that begins with the letter S. Including names. Which means that it's really gonna be hard for you to use IRC in the future.
20:51SeburoThanks :-|
20:51TylerSeburo: it's actually https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/08/08/mozilla-information-trust-initiative-building-movement-fight-misinformation-online/
20:52TylerSeburo: the right-wing conspiracy theorists in the US are accusing us of censorship because of that
20:54Caspy7Seburo: honestly, I think that jscher2000's response is more harmful than helpful in this case
20:55SeburoTyler: Ah right, okay. I am a little removed (and an ocean) away from all that kind of thing.
20:55TylerSeburo: it's dumb drama spread by right-wing paranoia
20:55Caspy7Tyler: I'm going to answer that it's categorically untrue. See any qualm with that response?
20:55TylerCaspy7: nope. I've been being harsh on reddit so you're being much nicer ;)
20:56Caspy7cool
20:56Seburo(Already writing a response of my own about that info trust thing.)
21:00SeburoIn light of this, can we add this to the SUMO KB? http://www.instructables.com/id/Aluminum-Foil-Hat/
21:02Caspy7Not trying to make waves, but I think it's important to start out with the straight, non-nuanced fact before elaborating when answering. So this being a yes/no answer, saying, "Nope, absolutely not." to start
21:03Caspy7certain...types of people, their comprehension...I'm just going to stop there. I'm too tired for diplomacy
21:06j605I hope there is a pref in about:config so I can continue to read and ridicule fake news
21:07Seburoj605: I think it might be a Linux setting... "sudo apt-get install nonsense".
21:08j605BTW I got a badge for 30 answers, yay
21:09Seburoj605: \o/ Great work!
21:09j605easiest answer: "Firefox does not have a email service so you can keep using AOL's email."
21:12Seburoj605: Some are like that, but all help the users to better understand things. Great work.
21:13j605thanks
21:24Caspy7well this is less than helpful... http://arewee10syet.com/
21:24Caspy7Does anyone know if greasemonkey is e10s compatible?
21:27NoahI swear we have run into bug 1388584
21:27firebothttps://bugzil.la/1388584 FIXED, bugmail@asutherland.org Places breaks if there is a single-quote character in the profile path, resulting in Firefox freezin
21:27Noah*before
21:27Noahhow are we repeating the same mistakes over and over? *sigh*
21:35Noahj605: lol! @ "I hope there is a pref in about:config so I can continue to read and ridicule fake news"
21:35Noahj605++
21:36Noahalso congrats on your 2017 Forum badge! :D
21:36Noahunfortunately all these efforts around getting rid of fake news will never happen. Call me the ultimate pessimist on that front
21:37Seburo^ this statement is fake news.
21:38NoahxD xD
21:38Seburo^ so is this
21:40NoahFake news will continue to exist b/c people think whatever they believe is true. Screw fact checking, having sources, etc, etc. Because a news story can brainwash into someone believing *your* version of truth. That gives these crazy, angry people a new found power. It reminds me of Scientology and other cults. Just instead of an actual group with membership fees & ridiculous rules, it's a blog post or cleverly designed "news" site ;)
21:41Noahthe only way to combat fake news is to DDoS all sites in that category into non-existence, shutdown all news sites [never going to happen] or stop reading the news altogether
21:41NoahI've already started doing #3 ;)
21:42j605there is a twitter user in India; SM hoax slayer, that does fact checking and posts against fake news
21:42j605but he can only do so much
21:42Caspy7Seburo: I'm about to pop my top here. Could you give a reply? Be simple, say that what I said was accurate
21:42Caspy7use the word totally if you liek
21:42Noahor #4: Skynet happens, the Internet dies and everyone is busy fighting Terminators xD
21:42Caspy7bigley
21:43SeburoCaspy7: ...?
21:43j605too much news to cover and there is the problem news in the local language
21:43Caspy7Seburo: most recent reply from user https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1171393#answer-996585
21:43j605which the majority of people are going to read and believe
21:44SeburoCaspy7: I think I might enjoy this.
21:44Noahj605: exactly! It's crazy. It would give whoever who's fighting back so much stress
21:45NoahI'm surprised Anonymous hasn't stepped in to hack these sites or disrupt them w/ DDoS attacks. It's like they don't even care anymore or they know it's a losing battle so they don't even bother to try :/
21:45Caspy7no jscher, don't....down in flames
21:45Caspy7that thread is over
21:46NoahxD
21:46Caspy7omigosh, this is going to keep me off the sumo site :-|
21:48j605Yeah, I will post about that about:config pref on twitter when this goes online
21:48j605\s
21:48Noahthis country is too politically engaged right now. I'm totally waiting for everyone to stop caring and go back to being lazy. This era of constant protesting, aruging and attacking each other is too much for me. Not gonna end til Trump gets impeached or someone beats him in the next election
21:49* Noah buckles up for 3 more years
21:49NoahIt's gonna be a looooong ride
21:50Noahj605: lol I'll be the first to like it ;)
21:51Noah&quot;I remember the days when the only fake news site was The Onion... and even then I thought some of their stories were real!&quot; <- Ohhh how I miss those days :)
21:51Caspy7Noah: sorry, but that&#39;s not going to guarantee that it will end
21:53Caspy7Seburo: aaaand he just cited your last post again as confirmation that he and the news site is right
21:53SeburoDo we know if he works for Fox...?
21:54j605the site he refers to is shit
21:54j605I lose faith when it advertises a nuclear war preparedness kit
21:55NoahCaspy7: I know. Not end completely but will be dealt a severe blow. Notice how all this is happening because of the way that man is. People will go back to being quietly racist, misinformed, etc, etc. Instead of publically emblazoned
21:55Seburoj605: oooh ...I need one of those.
21:55j605In all eventuality the only country that can bomb is the US, sorry but no one is that war hungry
21:55Noahthe good thing about America is they can never keep up any form of public protest or public hatred up for too long. Just look at Occupy Wall Street
21:56Noahor North Korea attacks and everyone focuses on that for a while & gets some kind of unity off that :X
21:57SeburoSimple vote, who think I should lock that thread. o/ o/ o/ o/ Motion passed.
21:57Noahlol xD
21:57Caspy7Seburo: ok, so you&#39;re not replying anymore there? You said &quot;Mozilla is hoping to continue efforts to remove &quot;fake news&quot; so that people have faith in the news that they are seeing.&quot; and he has taken and run with that as confirmation.
21:58Caspy7he&#39;s considered you the authority in this thread as you&#39;re the owner/mod. So at the moment he&#39;s galvanized
21:58Caspy7(just saying)
21:58SeburoIt is not a support issue with Firefox and is starting to turn into a public debate. I would like to lock it before we start hearing quotes from that &quot;election&quot; you had. :-)
21:59SeburoDraining swamps is bad for wildlife. Just is.
21:59NoahCaspy7: this is primarily the reason why I stay off Facebook. It&#39;s a highly combative place where extreme views are shared, good friends become newfound enemies and where you just become angry or disgusted on a daily basis
22:00NoahSeburo: on the bright side at least he didn&#39;t say he liked Breitbart :P
22:00Caspy7I stay off FB too. I&#39;m just frustrated at how this was handled.
22:00SeburoIf you are a frog, or a bug, or a plant, you do not want your swamp drained.
22:01* j605 looks at zerohedge
22:02* Noah creates a new slogan: &quot;The only truth is the truth I make&quot; :P
22:02j605> Report: Unite the Right Organizer Jason Kessler Was Obama Supporter Involved With Occupy Movement
22:02j605this site is shit as well
22:03SeburoIf swamps were drained, the &quot;Presidents of the United States of America&quot; music video for &quot;Lump&quot; would not have been so good.
22:03NoahI honestly wish Mozilla stayed out of this Fake News situation. We have enough problems to worry about. Honestly, do we need more crazy people hating us or wasting our time in pointless, unwinnable arguments on a daily basis?
22:04NoahLet Facebook, Google and other providers of news and search results worry about this crap. Now if Pocket tackles this, I don&#39;t mind
22:05j605and a user complained about Pocket today
22:05j605being included in firefox by default
22:05SeburoPocket is cool.
22:06j605some people can&#39;t take a hint that the world does not revolve around them
22:06Noahlol yeah. People were angry the first time we included Pockey by default too. I thought that soften by now though :)
22:06Noah*Pocket
22:06Caspy7call it Firefox Pocket :)
22:07SeburoI use Pocket, and am testing the beta version of the Android app. Because Beta is Better. :-)
22:07j605I mean they didn&#39;t even reearch about who owns pocket before ranting about third party addons given more preference
22:08j605also they want to file an anti-trust case in EU
22:09j605sorry for my rant, I am going to sleep
22:12Caspy7j605: back in the day when pocket was added it was not owned by Mozilla
22:33SeburoTurning in, need sleep, bye :-)
22:54Artisthi Noah, do you know anything about key pinning
23:02NoahArtist: you meant the certificate stuff? HTTP Public Key Pinning (HPKP) - https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/HTTP/Public_Key_Pinning
23:03NoahI know a little. Did you run into a issue?
23:06Artistnot an issue, just wonder if in https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/certificate-pinning-reports there is something missing. It says: report it by putting a check mark in the Report errors like this to help Mozilla identify and block malicious sites to report it to us.
23:07Artistthe question is: is there a checkbox? Because if so, I would edit the article by adding: ... by putting a check mark in the box next to the &quot;Report errors like this ...&quot;
23:08Caspy7Why did Seburo handle it that way?? I&#39;m really frustrated
23:08Caspy7http://www.naturalnews.com/2017-08-14-firefox-browsers-will-soon-block-fake-news-flagged-by-george-soros-linked-left-wing-groups.html#comment-3468061958
23:10Caspy7this has now turned into what will be presented as a Mozilla endorsement of an alternative fact (that hurts Mozilla)
23:22NoahCaspy7: Hmm I can unlock the thread if you&#39;d like to leave a comment of what you commented on that fake news article but I knew all along that if the thread was locked that guy would claim he was being censored & therefore was right
23:22Caspy7Noah: Tyler is on it
23:23NoahI usually wait until another annoying conspiracy person appears and comments in such a thread before I lock it citing that the thread is now attracting people who want to hijack it rather than help. So then I lock :)
23:23Noahok cool
23:24NoahArtist: checking. I know I&#39;ve seen that checkbox before
23:25NoahArtist: confirmed! http://www.akshatblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/secure-connection-failed.jpg
23:25NoahI also agree with your wording. Please make that edit :)
23:26ArtistNoah: thanks for checking. But frankly I have my doubts that this article is really necessary. Most users would not know what to make of it anyway (my personal opinion).
23:27ArtistI mean it would be ok in MDN, but in our KB? Well, not my decision, I just wondered
23:29NoahArtist: Hehe yes, I see what you mean. But it appears that too many of our Firefox users hit this error. Perhaps over time this article won&#39;t be needed anymore but we do also have curious techy Firefox users who like to know this information too :)
23:30ArtistFine, information they get :P and let&#39;s hope they understand the meaning ^^
23:33TylerCaspy7, Noah, anyone else interested. Please be very careful with your replies to those who think Mozilla and George Soros are associated. They frequent the very type of fake news websites that would be threatened by any sort of increasing the trustworthiness of the web so it is a matter of self-preservation for those websites to attack anything that
23:33Tylerthreatens them. Plus, the name &quot;George soros&quot; is a powerful bogeyman in the right-wing conspiracy community. Having his name and &quot;Firefox&quot; in a headline is a guaranteed click-magnet for their readers. Please be VERY careful to be explicitly clear that Mozilla is not censoring the web, that we have no affiliation with soros, and link back to the actual
23:33TylerMozilla announcement.
23:33ArtistI am just in the right mood for all this information-stuff: information, misinformation, desinformation, no information at all and so on. Seems like everyone is creating their own kind of information and I honestly wonder how it will all end
23:35ArtistIgnoring it all might be the best of all tactics
23:36TylerArtist: clear, undeniable responses that leave no room for vagueness are the best reply
23:38ArtistTyler: you would be right if people would believe that a response is clear and undeniable. That is exactly my sentiment - too many people just believe what they want to believe and are not prone to use their own brain
23:38TylerArtist: you are right, this is more so we can&#39;t start a press cycle because we kill the rumor right at the start
23:38Caspy7Artist: if someone comes to you and claims something horrible about you. You don&#39;t just say, &quot;Let them believe whatever they like.&quot; PR does matter, especially for Mozilla.
23:40Caspy7right and Seburo left a statement that seemed to confirm the accusation and then closed it. It could have spun off into another article or something similar
23:41ArtistIt all sounds very nice, but I also think we know that reality is different. Caspy7: if someone says something horrible about you or me and they really want to believe it is true, you can try as much as you can, deliver arguments which you think cannot be ignored, but those people will still be convinced that you or me are horrible. That was what I was getting at.
23:43ArtistOf course you can start saying &quot;this is not what I said&quot;. But these days - once an information is out - it is almost impossible to get things back into the box. It&#39;s like Pandora&#39;s in the old days
23:44Caspy7Artist: a) remaining silent instead of giving a simple &quot;that&#39;s not true&quot; can be worse. and b) I defer to Tyler&#39;s response that this is a good way to try and stop a potentially worse news cycle
23:47ArtistI wish I could be as optimistic as you ... recent reality just feeds my doubts. But fair enough, give it a try and hope for the best (or in this case trust the intelligence of people)
23:51TylerArtist unfortunately the battle against these sort of stories is a battle that can never be truly won. But we can try to minimize the damage. If it stays restricted to the fringes of society where it belongs that alone is a win
23:55ArtistTyler: I fully agree that it would be a win if we could achieve that it stays on the fringes. I am just worried that others might jump onto the bandwagon. The trouble is, that negative news are always much more interesting. And unfortunately there are plenty of people who even enjoy doing damage. The more, since it is without real consequences for them. So I am really interested to see how this will end up.
15 Aug 2017
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