mozilla :: #seamonkey

19 Mar 2017
08:37frg_awayHi ewong
08:40ewonghi frg_away!
08:41frg_awayewong: build 3 not ready yet?
08:42ewongfrg_away: nope. not yet.
08:42frg_awayewong: oki. If you need something just holler. Enjoying the Sunday slurping coffee and looking at formhistory bug :)
08:43ewongfrg_away: wow.. you're scary... well aside for the formhistory bug (which I'm not looking at), I *am* having a cup of coffee
08:43ewonguncanny.. not scary
08:45frg_awayewong: Bug yours is probably not a morning coffee to get the brain going . And don't touch the red button! Another netsplit yesterday. :D
08:46ewongfrg_away: nope.. afternoon tea :)
08:47ewongwhich red button?
08:48frg_awayewong: thought so. Weather here is dreadful. From almost Summer to Winter back to late Autumn in 4 days. No wonder I need coffee :(
09:06ewongfrg_away: just trying to prepare for build 3
09:08ewongbut doing a very bad job .. can't concentrate
09:08frg_awayewong: knocking on wood. Build Linux c-c yesterday with alsa enabled. Seems still to work.
09:09ewongfrg_away: c-c is (or should be) green..
09:10frg_awayewong: yes Just wanted to test if alsa still can be build if we want to eventually use it in 2.49
09:10Xogiumhrm.. Firefox 54 will drop alsa though
09:11XogiumI feel they will a) lose even more users doing this, b) a ton of folks that use alsa only will install that pulseaduio faker package
09:11Xogiumpulseaudio *
09:15frg_awayXogium: FF 52 has it already disabled. See Bug 1345661
09:15thebotBug maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, PulseAudio requirement breaks Firefox on ALSA-only systems
09:15* Xogium sighs
09:17Xogiumwhy are they doing such things ? Maybe it's just me but imo the mozilla foundation isn't the same as it was before.. Firefox was good in its old 3.x days, but I dunno, at some point they started messing things..
09:25frg_awayXogium: Neutral here. Alsa and PA both work for me with the limited things I do. Linux today is a mess. Too many distributions and things which essentially do the same. With Windows going to the dogs with 10 there is an opportunity but most people I know go the the Apple walled garden instead. And Gnome 3 uraghhh.. You can see it but visually out of the box it looks like .... I wish someone...
09:25frg_away...would revive qt in Mozilla.
09:25frg_away^make it you can't see it.
09:26Xogiumhrm.. For the qt part, I can't agree
09:26Xogiumqt is a mess with most screen reader
09:27Xogiumaccessibility in qt should be improved, and really, before qt would be useful for browser, and even then..
09:29Xogiumspecially for those poor blind mac users.. Qt apps are *totally* innaccessible. On linux and windows we still have some chance
14:50frg10 minutes to stataus meeting lanch. Anyone here ? :)
14:57IanN|AwayMeeting in 3 minutes -
14:57frgHello IanN|Away: Thought I stay alone :)
15:00IanNMeeting time -
15:01IanNWho's taking minutes?
15:01frgNot much of it as it looks like...
15:02frgNo ratty so frg will do it.
15:02IanNthe cavalry has arrived, hello rsx11m
15:02frgHi rsx11m was lonely here with only IanN :)
15:02rsx11mwhat's going on with Ratty?
15:02IanNNominees for Friends of the Fish Tank?
15:03frgewong for still fighting the build system.
15:03IanN!seen Ratty
15:03thebotratty was last seen 2 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 11 minutes and 53 seconds ago, saying '> It supports control from your phone if you are so addicted to the glow you need to play with your system from across the room. ' in #seamonkey.
15:03IanN!seen ratty90
15:03thebotratty90 was last seen 2 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 52 minutes and 42 seconds ago, saying 'um what was his nick?' in #seamonkey.
15:03IanN!seen rattyaway
15:03thebotrattyaway was last seen 3 weeks, 1 hour, 32 minutes and 4 seconds ago, changing nick to Ratty .
15:03IanN!seen ratty|away
15:03thebotI've never seen a 'ratty|away', sorry.
15:03IanN!seen ratty90away
15:03thebotratty90away was last seen 32 weeks, 3 days, 21 hours, 18 minutes and 40 seconds ago, saying '[[*smoke detector chirps* me*takes battery out* *chirp* me*cuts wires* *chirp* me*smashes it with a hammer* *chirp* wife:We have more than one ]]' in #seamonkey.
15:04IanNseconds ewong
15:06IanNcan I also nominate frg and rsx11m for the continued work on SM and working on the "cooperation" email reply
15:06rsx11mI second frg for trying to set a new record in branch approvals ;-)
15:07frggood or bad record?
15:07rsx11mgood record of course!
15:07IanNno such thing as a bad record :)
15:08frgwell I always think if something goes wrong it can be fixed later and if the patch is trivial...
15:09IanNany second for rsx11m?
15:09frgLets ewong join the fishes (for friends) and rsx11m and me in two weeks if no one else qualifies.
15:10rsx11msure, let's not spoil the fishes too much 8-)
15:10IanNI need to remind mcsmurf to check the nominations so he can send out the prizes
15:10IanN!seen mcsmurf
15:10thebotmcsmurf was last seen 17 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 19 minutes and 43 seconds ago, changing nick to Guest52888 .
15:10frgfish fodder?
15:10IanN!seen guest52888
15:10thebotguest52888 was last seen 17 weeks, 2 days, 2 hours, 13 minutes and 10 seconds ago, changing nick to mcsmurf .
15:11IanNhmmm, thebot is lying one way or another!
15:11rsx11m= he changed nick twice within 6 minutes, makes sense?
15:12IanNthen thebot would have seen mcsmurf most recently
15:13IanNanyway, on with the meeting
15:13IanNAction Items
15:13IanNI saw some movement on API keys
15:14frgNot much from me. Added some prefs for Safebrowsing V4 locally but didn't test them yet.
15:14IanNewong was doing something with keys in a secure bug
15:14* rsx11m didn't follow that
15:15frgAnd looking at the Firefox prefs there is indeed a geolocation google key in Firefox for release only. Otherwise mozilla key. If I find some time I will update the bug.
15:15rsx11mso, is the "old" Safebrowsing still working as long as the correct keys are around?
15:15IanNBug 903439 I think
15:15thebotBug is not accessible
15:15frgrsx11m: Yes. The new one also.
15:16rsx11mok, good
15:16IanNthough I'm not sure if ewong has checked in the patch from that...
15:16frgIanN: Didn't see it checked in.
15:17IanNI may remind if I remember when I see him
15:18IanNThere has been some discussion of taskcluster as an alternative to buildbot, but that also looks complex (and mozilla specific)
15:19frgI would avoid it at all costs. This is so complex... Buildbot or Jenkins
15:20IanNTB elections are now (just) over, so might be easier to talk to them soon
15:20rsx11mvoting results are posted, yes
15:21IanNI need to post the new SM project areas
15:22IanNDid we make a decision to bump SM versions?
15:23frgNo version bumps for now. ESR builds fine.
15:23rsx11mI'd say let's not touch it for 2.49 to avoid breaking things and figure out then what we do on trunk with respect to version numbering
15:24IanNfrg: do we need new branches for CZ and DOMi?
15:24IanNrsx11m: sounds like a plan
15:24frgAt this time would probably cause confusion. I can do patch for c-c later and take also care of Lightning where the version is used.
15:25frgIanN: No The branches for 2.48 beta are fine. There are the current heads and work in all trees.
15:25frgAnd with l10n broken...
15:26IanNStatus of the SeaMonkey Buildbot Master and Tree
15:26frgUpps I mean tags instead of branches.
15:27IanNewong|away: ping
15:27frgEverything builds but 2.51+ need some increasing love .
15:29frgBug 1347652 is a little nasty. Need to find some time.
15:29thebotBug maj, --, ---, nobody, REOP, Deleting history items grouped by date deletes entire history
15:30IanNyeah, looks it...
15:31tonymec|awayhello. Couldn't arrive earlier, sorry.
15:31frgFixed the Data Manager part for Bug 912031. IanN should I look at your patch too or do you think cloning will work? :)
15:31thebotBug nor, --, ---, iann_bugzilla, ASSI, Use Asynchronous FormHistory.jsm in place of nsIFormHistory2 in Suite
15:32IanNfrg: I am happy for you to look at my attempt (patch might be a generous description)
15:32IanNhi tonymec
15:34frgIanN: I won't probably waste too much time on the tests and split them off. This is so broken when we find some time or new devs it should be taken care of in a new task.
15:34IanNfrg: maybe just of unbitrotting then...
15:35frgNeed to check if cloning works for me. Would be interesting to do fixing this :)
15:35frgIanN: yes. I filed a bug against toolkit. formhistory-remove notifiers are broken for, I think, 3 years now...
15:36* IanN sighs
15:36frgwhen you gut the ui and nothing uses it anymore no wonder bugs creep in.
15:37frgBug 1346850 but the Data Manager can live without it.
15:37thebotBug nor, --, ---, nobody, UNCO, guid in FormHistory notification "formhistory-remove" is always null
15:41IanNFixed Stuff Since Last Meeting?
15:42frgNot the weather here for sure :)
15:42frgI think nothing important.
15:43IanNRelease Train
15:43rsx11mso, l10n is broken for 2.48b1 in general or "just" for extension building?
15:44rsx11mor, ewong just didn't get to the point yet where other locales are built?
15:45frgrsx11m: our l10n extensions pet bug. There were some new problems for 2.48 because of build system changes but ewong is ready for 2.48 beta build 3. I think he is ready to spin it to day or tomorrow.
15:45rsx11mfrg: sounds good
15:46rsx11mBug 1254401 is still open though for switching to Balrog updates...
15:46thebotBug blo, --, ---, ewong, ASSI, [Tracking Bug] Migrate SeaMonkey off aus2 to balrog.
15:46IanNyes, so still building without extensions
15:47frgbut because of the move to balrog it might bet late again for 2.48 / 2.49 if the next error shows around the corner...
15:47frg^get late
15:47IanNewong|away: ping on balrog
15:48IanNlots of stuff in Release Train
15:49frgIanN: Can't really be tested imho. When something fails it will be fixed and so on. Not ideal.
15:51frgWhat do you think of building 2.49ESR with alsa enabled? I am neutral here because I don't use Linux much these days. Bug 1346939 for Firefox causes quite a stir.
15:51thebotBug blo, P1, ---, nobody, NEW, Tracking bug for build and release of SeaMonkey 2.49 from ESR branch
15:52IanNwrong bug number?
15:52frgCopy Paste error Bug 1345661
15:52thebotBug maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, PulseAudio requirement breaks Firefox on ALSA-only systems
15:53IanNI think we should keep building the original way for 2.49 ESR
15:55rsx11mif we can still support ALSA from 52 ESR, no harm done continuing to do so for folks on older systems
15:55frgIanN: is the original way ALSA or no ALSA? ALSA whould need config changes.
15:55rsx11mALSA has been around for 20 years
15:56rsx11mso, it's more like they changed it to no longer support it by default
15:56IanNI presume with ALSA
15:57rsx11mPulseAudio was introduced in 2004, thus not cutting-edge new either
15:58frgWell every time I hear the name of its inventor mentioned I try to flee...
15:59frgcan both -enable-alsa and -enable-pulseaudio be used?
16:00IanNno idea
16:02frgI will try in a vm.
16:02rsx11mlooking at it seems so
16:02IanNExtensions and Plugins Compatibility Tracking
16:02rsx11mbut no idea what the implications are
16:04frgI suspect no movement here with ratty absent.
16:05frgCan I take Help -> About Plugins out for c-c?
16:07* rsx11m can't find that
16:07IanNhmmm, good question
16:07rsx11mare we talking about the meeting minutes?
16:07frgrsx11m: No the SeaMonkey menu :) rather useless now.
16:07rsx11mah, ok!
16:08IanNyeah, the link doesn't go anywhere useful
16:08rsx11mwon't be useless for 2.49.x, but would show only Flash in 2.50+
16:08rsx11m"Page Not Found"
16:09rsx11mwe still want to retain about:plugins as such
16:10rsx11mto get version details, location, etc.
16:10frgActually only string removals so would be a candidate for 2.50+ too. The no flash only pref I took out might still work for some plugins in 2.50+ but completely unsupported imho.
16:10frgrsx11m: yes. Only the menu.
16:10rsx11mwell, if people want to flip it on their own risk, that's their own risk ;-)
16:11rsx11mbut it is my understanding that pref support itself is removed already
16:12frgrsx11m: Its still there. Only Java would be worth to test anyway. They should have kept this and kicked Flash...
16:12IanNYes, menu can be removed but not about:plugins
16:12rsx11myeah, Java pretty much used a lot in business applications
16:13rsx11mthough the plugin will be deprecated with Java 9
16:13frgI think about:plugins is toolkit anyway.
16:13rsx11mthus, it'll last as long as Java 8 is still supported
16:13frgI think its deprecated but not removed in 9.
16:15IanN2.x (Last, Current, Next)
16:15rsx11mno entry for about:plugins in
16:15rsx11mfrg: ah, ok - it's ambiguous what "deprecated" means in this regard...
16:17frgrsx11m: about:about shows a lot if stuff from gecko.
16:17rsx11mseems so, so all Toolkit in this case
16:18rsx11mwithout Sync working, not much use :-D
16:18frgI know.
16:18rsx11minteresting that only About Plugins was exposed in the Help menu
16:20IanNsome others are e.g. about:support
16:20IanNand about:
16:20rsx11myes, right
16:21frgRead something about it in old debugQA bugs. Conclusion was imho that internal stuff shouldn't be exposed to the user too much. e.g. about:config
16:22rsx11mmakes sense, though the "official" way to access the add-ons should be from the Tools > Add-Ons Manager menu
16:22IanNanything on feature list, planning or roundtable?
16:23frgNo a little overwhelmed without Ratty so only doing small new stuff.
16:24rsx11mnothing here either - not much bandwidth on my end right now, sorry...
16:25frgIts clear that a few new devs and admins would be very welcome :)
16:26ewSorry guys for missing the meeting
16:26rsx11mhi ew ong
16:27ewWas Ratty here?
16:27IanNew: no
16:27frgNo :(
16:27rsx11mno, nobody knows why he hasn't been seen for the last three weeks
16:27rsx11mhope he is ok ...
16:27ewHope so too
16:27frgMe too.
16:28rsx11mI've sent a personal e-mail after the last meeting but didn't get any response from him yet
16:28IanNme 3, he does go off for a number weeks sometimes
16:28rsx11mmaybe just busy...
16:28ewThe last time was him going on holiday
16:29IanNhe didn't mention anything this time (not sure he did last time either)
16:30IanN!seen mnyromyr
16:30thebotmnyromyr was last seen 2 weeks, 6 days, 23 hours, 10 minutes and 17 seconds ago, saying 'oh, that's HaFi's site I could have guessed :-D' in #seamonkey.
16:30IanNMnyromyr has stolen him!
16:30frgI think he needed a little breathing space. With Neil leaving he got a lot of additional project work and always asked about him afterwards. Just a hunch. Will probably appear fresh and good in a few weeks .
16:31IanN!seen ratty
16:31thebotratty was last seen 3 weeks, 39 minutes and 36 seconds ago, saying '> It supports control from your phone if you are so addicted to the glow you need to play with your system from across the room. ' in #seamonkey.
16:31ewI need a new iphone irc client
16:31* rsx11m keeps fingers crossed
16:31IanNfrg: point any more reviews you need at me
16:32ewBut I would figure that he'd respond to emails
16:32IanNunless he's on holiday
16:32ewHope so
16:32frgIanN: will do but that were the ones I had finished. Could need a vacation myself Too much juggling around :)
16:33frgIanN: Only Approval for bug 1334910 is missing. Tonymec tested it in 2.52 and works fine for him too.
16:33IanNit is only a hobby, not worth melting down over
16:33thebotBug nor, --, ---, frgrahl, VERI FIXED, Make SeaMonkey support moz://a
16:34frgIanN: yes. I will not melt no worry.
16:35IanNok, AOB - Sunday 2nd 2pm UTC okay for everyone?
16:35rsx11myepp, one hour earlier UTC due to Summer Time!
16:36rsx11m(speaking of melting)
16:36frgOh I see moz: is now in c-r so will need c-r too :)
16:36frgSunday is fine.
16:37rsx11mok, I'll get out the reminders as usual
16:37IanNdo we meeting on 16th (Easter Sunday) or push back a week?
16:37IanNor skip the meeting?
16:38frgWould be ok but lets push it a week. Some release stuff might come up so I would want it.
16:38rsx11mwith 2.48 in the queue, would be good /not/ to wait 4 weeks, just make it April 23rd then instead
16:38IanNfine by me
16:38IanNmake the call next meeting
16:39ewI meant sgtm
16:39* IanN looks at ew
16:39ewI hate autocorrect
16:39rsx11mautomatically correcting to the wrong thing ;-)
16:40frgOne last item. Should we do 2.48 release? It gets late. Maybe a 2.49 with gtk2 and gtk3 from esr then later.
16:40IanNyou'd think they'd switch off autocorrect in an irc client
16:40rsx11mhow about a Bluetooth brain interface so that the phone /knows/ what you are thinking?
16:40rsx11mnext step of the electronic evolution! 8-)
16:40ewBtw mcdmurf said that the API key I have is for safebrowsing
16:41* IanN grins
16:41a-865keeping alsa enabled could attract new blood, say "use seamonkey instead" to those who complain. pulseaudio is a parasite, depends on alsa
16:41ewApparently we get the geolocation for Moco
16:41rsx11ma-865: yes, I'd definitely vote for keeping it
16:41IanNfrg: I think it depends on how build 3 goes, what do you think ew?
16:42frga-865 we can only do this if its not broken in the tree. For 2.49 + ESR it will be kept. Afterwards ...
16:42HonzaHa-865: Which could be very desirable, because the people who have ALSA are also quite likely to be a) power users, b) programmers willing to contribute code and c) potential donors
16:43frgd) the ones who complain the most :)
16:43HonzaHfrg: you pessimist :-D
16:43frgNo I am just doing support in the newsgroups.
16:44frgwaehh you took away support for my 15 year old cpu with SSE2 ...
16:45ewHere's my input: we need to test out a few new items for 2.48. Balrog updates and pointing aus2 to the new update server
16:46frgew yes. I am all for beta but couldn't we do a 2.49 release from c-r?
16:46ewWhile I realize 2.48 is old, but I feel it's the best time to ensure 1 release is good
16:46frgew in any case you are the releng boss
16:46a-865openSUSE's mozilla maintainer announced FF will continue being built with alsa as long as possible
16:46rsx11mcan we move from 2.48 directly to 2.49.1 built from comm/mozilla-esr52 then?
16:47rsx11ma-865: yes, WolfiR is doing a great job!
16:47ewRsx11M 2.48 release or beta!
16:47frgew I think release. Mixing channels is not a good idea.
16:47ewThen sure
16:48ewTentatively that is
16:48rsx11mok, just want to avoid that we need some interim release just to bring people to new channels or update servers
16:48rsx11mbut then, even though it's "esr" where releases come from, the channel should still be "release" as with TB?
16:49rsx11mthus, hopefully not a problem from the user's point of view
16:49ewI am hoping 2.48 is that interim version
16:49rsx11mah, ok.
16:49frg2.35 did it. In 2.49.1 we might then point to the esr channel.
16:50ewOk gotta head out will chat tomorrow if someone pings me with questions
16:50frgor 2.49.2 by then. Btw. running 2.49.1 now. Works.
16:51ewMight be my tiredness
16:51IanNso 2.48 is needed, then point to releases from esr
16:51frgew: yes. changed version.txt in my comm-esr52 local repo.
16:51rsx11myou mean from 52.0.1, not 52.1.0, right?
16:51IanNthere was a chemspill?
16:51rsx11mare you surprised? It's Firefox after all ;-)
16:51ewNot that I was aware of
16:53frgIanN: yes Experimental api got out by accident and has a bug Set canvas.imagebitmap_extensions.enabled to false for 2.49
16:53IanNok, any more for any more or shall we call this a meeting?
16:54IanNok, thanks for your time everyone
16:54IanNnext meeting 2pm UTC on 2nd April
16:54frgHappy remaing sunday everyone.
20:57frg_awaystatus meeting notes are up. Let me know if I forgot something:
21:16knoppixHello, I am a new SeaMonky user. Is there a Search Bar (which in Firefox is located next to the address bar, and gives possibility to choose between the intalled search engines) in this browser and how can be displayed?
21:38tonymec|awayknoppix: yes, it can be fetched from the button palette. Right-click any toolbar or menubar then Customize...
21:39tonymec|awayknoppix: once the palette is displayed, use drag&drop to move the buttons & widgets around.
21:44knoppixit is done, thank you! By the way, I switched to SeaMonkey from Firefox because they have dropped the ALSA support. Hope SeaMonky will not change to pulseaudio...
21:45tonymec|awayknoppix: dunno. Part of that is in Core and if it goes away I don't know if Sm will fork it.
21:51knoppixi do not quite understand why they had to do this Chromium is also a modern browser and it can be used in knoppix (wich has not pulseaudio) without problems
21:52tonymec|awayah, knoppix: I see this in the SeaMonkey status meeting notes (earlier today): SeaMonkey 2.49 will be build with ALSA support. This has been disabled in Firefox 52 and causes problems for Linux users (see discussion in bug|1345661)
21:53tonymec|awaybug 1345661
21:53thebotBug maj, --, ---, nobody, NEW, PulseAudio requirement breaks Firefox on ALSA-only systems
21:56knoppixthere is a software "apulse" for replacing pulseaudio and i am using it for skype But for firefox it is not working, for ex. a youtube video does not start So, I had to change my browser
22:00knoppixi use SeaMonkey 2.46 downloaded yesterday, so for a time i will have no problem with SM
22:35HonzaHknoppix: Here's a link you might like
23:02halkI got an error today about the fact that the XML file checked to know whether an update is available is not valid. Maybe that can happen if the file cannot be read?
23:03halkAnyone else got such an error?
20 Mar 2017
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Last message: 7 days and 17 hours ago