mozilla :: #seamonkey

14 Jul 2017
02:41Lightkeyit's 1500000000 o'clock!
06:04frg_awayMorning ewong
06:09ewongfrg_away: 'mornin!
06:10frg_awayewong how was the week? 2.48 looks good. tested the Windows version. Builds themself seem to be complete.
06:10ewongfrg_away: week was ok.. currently doing/fixing the updates step for 2.48
06:14ewongand now... to run errands
06:14frg_awayewong yes I saw. Was slightly ill with a cold but working from home. Still a bit wobbly. Shouldn't we keep the battleforthenet news?
06:42ewongfrg_away: yeah.. I think we should.. shouldn't have done the wholesale backout ;/ sorry
06:45ewongfrg_away: backed out my backout of the news change
06:49frg_awayewong oki. For me the matter itself is more complex. I wouldn't mind that netflix and the other biggies pay for infrastructure But if nothing is done everyone will suffer.
06:49werwolfGuten Morgen frg_away
06:49frg_awayHallo werworlf
06:49werwolf:)
06:49frg_awayoppe werwolf
06:50werwolfIch war kurz hier um 12 Uhr, aber du nicht
06:51ewongfrg_away: tbh.. we're all screwed either way.. coz Team Cable will find a way to ensure this legislation go through
06:51frg_awaymute gestern noch was einkaufen. Haben wir uns vielleicht knapp verfehlt.
06:52ewongwerworlf?
06:52frg_awayewong yes with the stupid syncophant fcc guy at the head for sure.
06:52werwolfewong: yes?
06:52werwolfhi
06:52werwolf:)
06:52ewongwerwolf: Nein! Nein! :P
06:53werwolf:D
06:53werwolfJa! Ja! Ja!
06:53werwolf:P
06:54frg_awaySmilie tests?
06:54werwolffrg_away: Knntest du mir sagen, ob du hier: http://yo-lobo.eu/aleman/ das Wort "Aleman" oben, in Frakturschrift siehst?
06:55* werwolf mag siene Smilies
06:56werwolfewong: do you see there a word in gothic letters at the page?
06:57ewonggothic letters?
06:57frg_awaywerwolf no. I disabled web fonts but also see no loading error for them
06:57werwolfDanke
06:57ewongyo no comprendes
06:57frg_awayewong https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_alphabet
06:58ewongdoes it suck any blood if I look at it?
06:58werwolfit does not :D
06:58ewongnope
06:59frg_awayPersonally I wouldn't use them. Half the people nowadays would just think it is a right wing website.
06:59werwolfewong: you will fall in love in them
06:59ewongwerwolf: does it include a beautiful model?
06:59werwolfTja, weil die Nazis Arschlscher sind
06:59werwolfund die Leute dumm
06:59frg_away+1
07:00werwolfno models, no pussies, nothing, just a text
07:00werwolfin spanish
07:00ewongpor que?
07:00werwolffrg_away: Ja, ist nicht wichtig, ich werde es nicht benutzen
07:00werwolfewong: I am trying to get privete students of German here in Argentina
07:01werwolfprivate
07:01werwolffrg_away: Hier kennt man nur Adolf, wrde sowieso keine Rolle spielen.
07:01werwolfUnd alle denke, da er gestorben ist.
07:01werwolf*denken
07:01werwolfda er hier gestorben ist.
07:01werwolfverzeihung
07:02ewongcloning m-r is a pita
07:03frg_awayewong use a recent mercurial.
07:03ewongfrg_away: using 3.9.1 right now
07:03ewongfrg_away: this is on the slave
07:04frg_awayewong I think 4.1+ is needed for it to be faster.
07:07werwolfDoes SM get money from Duckduckgo?
07:07ewongyes
07:07* werwolf set all his browers search engines to the Duck 8-)
07:08werwolfewong: I was talking a bit yesterday with frg_away about svg icons. I mean I could convert them.
07:08werwolfI only need the images.
07:09ewongwerwolf: convert them to what?
07:09werwolfor tell me where they are
07:09werwolfto svg
07:09ewongwerwolf: colour me confused... which images?
07:10werwolfseamonkeys icons
07:11ewongI think KaiRo had a bunch of images on his site
07:11frg_awayewong we need to convert our theme images to svg in the long term. They need to be vectorized for hiDPI displays. Looks very bad now. Fx and TB do it on a per case base. But Fx ones are a grey mess as usual.
07:11ewongdunno if he took 'em down
07:11frg_awaybest to check out the tree all in suite\themes
07:13frg_awaywerwolf https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central Can help you later. Not planning to go shopping today :)
07:14* ewong sighs.
07:14frg_awaywerwolf very nice tool for Windows Linux and OSX: https://tortoisehg.bitbucket.io/download/
07:14ewongwhen someone mentions shopping here.. I think of Ratty.. as he's always at the mall :P
07:14werwolfSag mir einfach, was ich machen soll
07:15werwolfich installiere das schne Werkzeug?
07:17frg_awayewong: I still hope he is ok and shows up. If not I will have a word with him in the afterlife
07:18ewongfrg_away: get in line.. I'm first to have a few choice words with him
07:19werwolffrg_away: Was macht genau das Schildkrtelchen?
07:19frg_awayewong lets make it 2 against 1 then!
07:20frg_awaywerwolf Shell fuer die Versionsverwaltung. Der Source ist in Mercurial
07:21werwolf:O
07:21werwolfWofr ist das gut?
07:22frg_awaywerwolf https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Mozilla/Developer_guide/Source_Code/Getting_comm-central
07:22frg_awayhg clone https://hg.mozilla.org/comm-central/
07:23werwolffrg_away: Du solltest wissen, da ich einen Rechner habe, der den Namen nicht mehr verdient: 1,6GHz mit 400MB RAM und angeschlossen bin ich per Handy, das ich als Modem benutze.
07:23* werwolf hofft, da das keine Rolle spielt
07:23frg_awayim suite\theme Verzeichniss sind so ziemlich alle Icons. Aber es sind schon ein paar 100 MB. Kann dir sonst einen Abzug des Verzeichnisses hinstellen. Das ist kleiner.
07:24werwolfja, das wre sehr nett
07:25werwolfich kann auch in ein Internet-Caf gehen und mir dort alles runterladen
07:25werwolfdas wird einfacher
07:25werwolfwrde das gehen?
07:26werwolffrg_away: ich frchte, da ich das mit dem HW, das mir zur Verfgung steht, nicht werde machen knnen.
07:27werwolfWas meinst du?
07:38frg_awayewong Bug 1380780 doesn't hit our modern builders I assume :)
07:38thebotBug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1380780 nor, --, Thunderbird 56.0, mozilla, RESO FIXED, Get rid of python 2.5/2.6 compatability code in client.py
07:38ewonghow can they actually say it's TB build config only when we also share client.py?
07:38ewongholy smokes!! TOM PRINCE?
07:39ewongoh narf!
07:39ewongfrg_away: though whatever the result is.. I'm sure we'll find a fix..
07:40frg_awayewong you should get in touch with him and comment in the bug
07:40ewongfrg_away: I'll comment in the bug.. but either way.. it is about time we get rid of 2.6 python stuff..
07:41ewongsorry... 2.5/2.6 python stuff
07:41ewongsince we're using at least 2.7.5 ..
07:43ewongfrg_away: whenever I think of our infra.. I just wanna cry
07:43ewongfrg_away: mainly because of the potential "I told you so" situations that we can find ourselves in when we go with any one solution
07:44frg_awayewong one step at a time. Commented in the bug.
07:44ewongfrg_away: thanks!
07:44ewongwas about to do that myself..
07:45frg_awayewong I won't. If I do whack me. I am not sure I like aws but we need to start. If it turns out to be a dead end it will be a dead end. And configs + the other stuff can surly be used then elsewhere. So go ahaed of what you think works.
07:46ewongfrg_away: tbh.. I don't like the AWS.. but that covers 2 of our 3 platforms
07:47ewongit's between our current situation and the ideal situation (everything under one roof) that irks me to no end
07:48frg_awayewong just stay frosty and lets see if we can put something up. But I think it should be buildbot or jenkins based. Forget taskcluster.
07:49ewongfrg_away: I agree..
08:13ewongwhoa.. there was a change in the project areas?
08:24frg_awayewong. Yes. I should probably be more owner of the installer than the build config but it is at least a start.
09:09ewongfrg_away: oh yay... brilliant.. we're busted exactly because of that 2.5/2.6 change. that makes me happy..
09:09ewongfrg_away: seriously though.. will find a way to fix that
09:12frg_awayewong Nightly has problems anyway. Need to patch it up and also do the apikey configs so not urgent. 2.48 has prio imho.
09:12ewongfrg_away: gotcha
09:13frg_awayewong probably you should post a followup in the bug just to make sure that Tom gets the message.
09:16ewongfrg_away: it isn't much of Tom getting the message.. it's the hope that someone other than SeaMonkey members get the idea that *we* do exist.. :P
09:16ewongyes.. I'm a bit snarky... sorry
09:17frg_awayewong MoCo won't jorgk knows. He is fixing enough for us but probably didn't think much about it. 2.6 is rather old.
09:17ewongfrg_away: right.. jorgk's cool..
09:19Redhat71just downloaded 2.48 candidate (linux), still got distorted sound on certain sites like wsj & twitter, can anyone confirm?
09:22frg_awayRedhat71 It still has ALSA and Pulse support so you might try to disable one of them. If it isn't a Gecko (Firefox) 51 problem its probably distribution or system specific.
09:22ewongfrg_away: ^
09:23Redhat71how? and about:support shows --> Audio Backend pulse
09:23frg_awayRedhat71. Maybe ask in mozillazine. More Linux users there.
09:24frg_awayRedhat71. I think ALSA is the fallback in recent versions. There is a command to turn pulse off.
09:24Redhat71firefox don't have this problem, and seamonkey works on most sites like youtube
09:24ewongoh... there's an about:support that shows Audio Backend?
09:24Redhat71but not certain other sites...
09:25frg_awayRedhat71. Which Firefox? Fx 51 or a later one? Might be fixed in the backend.
09:25Redhat71turn pulse off? and i was thinking the opposite...
09:25Redhat71frg_away: all
09:26Redhat71i don't remember when i notice this, with seamonkey. but it's been some time and it has always been just seamoneky, firefox don't have this problem
09:27frg_awaymaybe bad browser sniffing from the website.
09:30ewongya know... if frg_away starts spouting random quotes.. I'm gonna say frg_away == RattyAway and be done with it ..
09:30ewong:D
09:31frg_awaymeans I have no clue here. Can check after work.
09:36frg_awayewong: All I can think of is that we didn't enable the rust parser or rust. Everything else should be the same. Need to check Fx 51 configs.
09:37ewongfrg_away: this is in regards to the alsa/pulse issue?
09:37frg_awayewong yes.
09:37ewonginteresting
09:39ewongfrg_away: btw, re the trunk bustage (aside for python issue).. is it the linking issue?
09:40frg_awayewong from yesterday? should be fixed today.
09:40frg_awayBug 1380579
09:40ewongfrg_away: no.. iirc, it was orange yesterday... however.. this is on linux... I'm talking about w32
09:40thebotBug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1380579 nor, --, Thunderbird 56.0, jorgk, RESO FIXED, Port bug 945240 to mailnews: Add GetDisplayHost() method to various mailnews URLs
09:41ewongah.. possibly that one
09:41frg_awaylocal all is peachy on Windows
09:42ewongah that's the nightly.. so yeah..I guess it's ok now.. will wait until nightly runs
09:45ewongfrg_away: thanks for being on the ball...
09:47frg_awayewong just too many balls but you know this :)
09:47ewongyou're a better juggler than I am, at least
09:48ewongwhen Ratty returns... well.. *if* he returns, we'll have a better coverage
09:54frg_awayewong Fx 51 used --enable-rust and set MOZ_RUST_MP4PARSE=1. This might explain some differences in audio/video.
09:55ewongoh
09:56frg_awayRedhat71 I can do a private build for you for testing if this makes a difference if you want.
09:57Redhat71frg_away: thanks, but i'm more curious why i can't find anyone confirming the issue....
09:58frg_awayRedhat71 ask in mozillazine or tonymec / rsx11m. They are on linux.
09:58Redhat71frg_away: forums.mozillazine.org?
09:59frg_awayRedhat71 yes. Should be more users there. irc is a lonely place these days.
09:59Redhat71frg_away: ok, thanks
11:28tonymec|awayfrg_away: Redhat71: today I'm going to mom's but if I don't forget I'll read today's logs tomorrow.
11:29frg_awaytonymec|away http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?f=40&t=3031754 with upcoming 2.48 also
11:30tonymec|awaySerious or hoax? The British Prime Minister supposedly wants to prohibit cryptography, open source, et al. See this thread on tb-planning: https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/tb-planning/zOUP-N3KZpw
13:29WG9s_frg_away: OK I have a ptch ready for bug 1378075 I will post it as soon as my Firefox build completes so that my iIndows system is free to do a depend build with this fix so I can test.
13:29thebotBug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1378075 nor, --, ---, wgianopoulos, ASSI, Missing visual separation of main window elements with W7 classic desktop
13:30frg_awayWG9s SeaMonkey and TB building is broken. jorgk takes care of 1 right now but the other might need a m-c backout. Can test on Beta.
13:30WG9s_OK I am still building based on last successful nightly
13:32WG9s_frg is there a bug on the issue or a bug number we knw is what we want backed out?
13:36WG9s_frg_away: it is good that TB is also broken. The Firefox bigots seem to think SM bustage is ours to fix but TB bustage is still their issue.
13:37frg_awayWG9s they take their time with the Classic bug too. But all depends on who is involved. There are still a lot of people helping.
13:39WG9s_frg_away: anyway my windows build machine still ahs an hour to go try8ing to build firefox and i am hesitant to use it to work on this SeaMonkey issue to delay that. once that is doen the dep build will probably take maybe 20 mins so should then have a build that can be used to test.
13:41frg_awayWG9s Not urgent. Still at work have 1000 other bugs to juggle around and I am sure we will fix it together.
13:45WG9s_frg_away: on the find dupes issue I kind of at some point sant to remove all of the lines from allowed duped that conaint the string "/locale/" in it. But I really cant do that until I am 100% sure that we will not end up doing the current SeaMonkey based on 5ESR rather than mozilla-central tip.
13:45WG9s_s/5ESR/52ESR/
13:46frg_awayWG9s The ones in c-c could be removed. Just not touch ESR52. This will be the next SeaMonkey.
13:47WG9s_OK so what is on SeaMonkey now as 2.53 will never run with ESR52?
13:48WG9s_If so I can sust wait until they decide it si time to remove all of those entries in mozilla-central.
13:49WG9s_I am for anything that might make builds faster.
13:55WG9s_frg_away: is this bug 1381011?
13:55thebotBug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1381011 nor, --, ---, jorgk, ASSI, Port bug 1380413 to mailnews
13:57frg_awayWG9s Yes. this is the bug. 2.53 is the way to ESR59 aka 2.56. What comes after...
13:58WG9sfrg_away: ok so i will submit the bug to remove the locale stuff form allowed-dupes when the bug to remove the similar lines form MC get landed.
13:58frg_awayWG9s Sounds good. Thanks. You can set me as reviewer.
13:59WG9sfrg_away: I will probably submit the bug now but not submit a patch until the other bug gets approved and landed.
13:59frg_awayWG9s sure just set me on cc if you want
13:59WG9sfrg OK
14:00WG9sI will now return you to the probably more imprtant stuff you are wokring on.
14:01frg_awayWG9s only paid work :)
14:01frg_awayweekend is near
15:29WG9sfrg_away: would it help if i worked on BZs comments on bug 1381011 and let you and Jorg to work on toher things?
15:29thebotBug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1381011 nor, --, ---, jorgk, ASSI, Port bug 1380413 to mailnews
15:29WG9ss/toher/other/
15:30frg_awayWG9s No let him do it. He is already onto it.
15:30WG9sOK
15:30WG9sJUst tryuing to offload you people
17:41Mcbug 1247628 comment 35 :-P
17:41thebotBug https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1247628 enh, P3, ---, nobody, NEW, Enable "TCP and UDP Socket API" for WebExtensions
17:44Mceven chatzilla would depend on that
17:47Mcand gopher (a nice to have)
17:53iMacDoes SeaMonkey have any plans to support WebExtensions?
17:54frg_awayiMac yes we need to if we want to survive but it will be a slow go at best.
17:54iMacThat's cool.
17:54iMacBecause I was just thinking
17:55iMacAt some time I will probably find that half my extensions no longer work in Firefox and the other half don't yet work in SeaMonkey.
17:56frg_awayiMac Personally don't expect anything in the next year. Not enough developers.
17:57frg_awayping IanN|Away ewong|away Check your mail :)
17:57iMacMaybe try and recruit some of the extension developers whose work is no longer welcome at Firefox?
18:05frg_awayiMac It is a hard sell. We are off the radar almost everywhere and considered dead more often than I can count.
18:07iMacWell, come Firefox 57 many will consider Firefox dead. Maybe you'll gain some new users.
18:07iMacThat is, if those users know what to switch to.
18:09XogiumI considered firefox a lost cause since v 50
18:09iMacWhat went wrong in 50 Xogium ?
18:09Xogiumjust, it felt more and more slow
18:10iMacI haven't experienced the slowness myself. But people are claiming real speed improvements since 53 or 54 or whatever.
18:10iMacProbably due to multi process and stuff.
18:11frg_awaySame for SeaMonkey and even without e10s All in Gecko imho.
18:11iMacI think right now Firefox is in a really good place. Unfortunately they're going to kill of legacy (read: powerful) extensions in a couple versions.
18:12Xogiumyeah
18:12iMacThe day I can't have tabs on bottom and block network request on about: pages is the day I stop using Firefox.
18:12XogiumI'd keep an out of date version if I could, but that's just bad practice
18:12iMacWell, Firefox ESR exists. But unfortunately the ESR schedule doesn't match up all too well with the dropping of legacy extensions.
18:13iMacWould be great if they made one last ESR with all the new good stuff but still keep support for legacy extensions.
18:13XogiumI'm still dreading that cervo thingy, don't feel like accessibility will be awesome in there
18:13iMacMaybe they, if you're lucky, they'll have expanded with new and improved APIs for WebExtensions by the time it's time to upgrade ESR again.
18:13iMacMaybe then*
18:14Xogiumwe're already struggling to go around a ton of gecko bugs that mozilla won't fix, hence why I dread cervo replacing gecko
18:15Xogiumabout accessibility
18:17bletchHi
18:17bletchI am a beginner and want to explore the world of open source
18:18bletchcan someone suggest me a how to work on some bug.
18:18bletchI have knowledge og C, C++ and basic Java
18:18* thebot frowns at bletch
18:18bletchthanks in advance
18:19frg_awaybletch Under which OS? SeaMonkey is mostly JavaScript css, html, xml and XUL
18:22frg_awaynot enough C probably :)
18:22iMacNothing to C here, move along
18:22Xogiumhah hah hah
18:22Xogium^^
18:22iMacI apologize.
18:23Xogiumnah that was funny :p
18:24Xogiumdamnit, I'm bored as hell here.. :D
18:25iMacPoor guy probably thought this was Cmonkey.
18:26Xogium;)
18:27iMacI'll C myself out.
18:32ThurahTstaaahp...
18:33frg_awayMaybe thebot spooked him. thebot loves C and C++ last I heard
18:33ThurahTthe day sm drops xpi for webext is the day I quit internet.
18:34ThurahThaha.. perhaps. I heard it loves java
18:35frg_awayThurahT What should we do? Drop SeaMonkey instead? I would love to support both but with Mozilla planning already to remove piceces in 58 even doing it for 59 2.56 might be hard.
18:36ThurahTyeah.. doom is upon us
18:36frg_awayI hope Moco falls flat on their face but hoping for others to fail is not a good plan.
18:37Xogiummaybe not but it's good to hope
18:37* Xogium hides
18:37ThurahTI dont't know truth be told.. you've had some openings.. but it is hard and undermanned as sm is.. even harder.
18:38Xogiumsomehow it feels like mozilla just wants to kill sm
18:39ThurahTI'm just deciding that I will quit internet then. I will manage somehow. Rather see SM stay alive than anything else.. : )
18:39ThurahTXogium: that has been true for some years now
18:39ThurahTor are rather.. they want everything dead xcept ff.
18:40Xogiumokay, so I'm not crazy again. Good to know :p
18:40ThurahTyou are as sane as most I believe :)
18:41Xogium:D
18:41frg_awayhow goes the saying: Just because I am paranoid doesn't mean there isn't someone out there who wants to get me?
18:42Xogiumhehe
18:42Xogiumnice one, I didn't know it :p
18:42ThurahTIt is hard being a "power"-user when al power disappear more and more.. Not only concerning browsers but most things.. I'd hope this simplicity fad would have died soon.. But it is still going strong..
18:43ThurahTfrg_away: : )
18:44Xogiumwell.. At least I still can have some fun on my sbc and be a power user that way :D
18:46ThurahTindeed. And I'll pretend to understand what sbc is.. : O : )
18:46Xogiumsingle-board computer
18:47Xogiumlike odroid boards, espressobin, bananapi, raspberry pi, etc.
18:48ThurahTah, yeah yeah.. I rememer.. You tinkered around a lot with those
18:48Xogiumyeah :D got mainline kernel and boot loader to work on one
18:49ThurahTI am typing with a sleeping cat on arm restriction.. Sloow..
18:49ThurahTah, nice going
18:49Xogiumhehe
18:50ThurahTwhich boot loader?
18:50Xogiumu-boot
18:50ThurahTah, nice
18:50Xogiumyeah, loads of fun with the serial console :D
18:51ThurahTthe 8-bit guy on youtube did some stuff bout that
18:51Xogiumreally ? :O
18:52ThurahTbut on a very old atari or some such.. I can't remember
18:52Xogiumoh yeah those
18:52Xogiumwell here it could be considered old too, in a way because it emulates an old vt220
18:53ThurahToh? That's cool
18:53ThurahTthe classic tty
18:53Xogiumyup
18:53Xogium:D
18:54Xogium80x24...
18:54Xogiumwoohoo
18:55ThurahTHaha.. and that is still standard size
18:55Xogiumyeah, for serial yeah.. You can't go that high above or it completely mess up the terminal
18:57ThurahTand BBS feeds would look weird.. : )
18:57Xogiumyeah :D
19:06ThurahTheh, did you guys see this: https://github.com/mozilla/addons-frontend/issues/2785
19:07ThurahTgorhills ublock works as expected with xpi but fails with webext.
19:07Xogiumnooooo
19:07ThurahTbecause that is how moco designed it
19:07Xogium:'(
19:08ThurahTit's only an about: page but still..
19:09Xogiumyeah :(
19:09XogiumI don't know why, I have the feeling they'll lose most of their userbase by then
19:10Xogiumor maybe I'm just hoping tooo much :D
19:11iMacFirefox will only cater to Chrome users soon.
19:11iMacUnfortunately for them, Chrome users are already using Chrome
19:11ThurahTall webext versions of existing xpis are crap in comparison. But userbase is always renewing it self. And only older users will know what was lost.
19:12Xogiumif sm ever dies I think I'll use chromium. There's not really an accessible browser except chromium and ff or sm
19:12ThurahTiMac: yeah, that is like the biggest conundrum regarding moco and their decision making the last years
19:13ThurahTXogium: I will move onto lynx.
19:13iMacI mean I understand if they initially thought "Hey, this its where the majority of users are! Lets' target those!"
19:13iMacBut surely they had to stop and think Chrome users will probably not switch from Chrome to a Chrome clone.
19:13ThurahTyeah, they pretty much screwed their own userbase since 3.5 and onward.
19:14ThurahTthat last part is what I will never understand.. Somehow they just stopped thinking logically.
19:14ThurahTthad they stuck to what made them a success in the first place..
19:15frg_awayThey are obsessed with telemetry. This can probably help but it is a religion for them. The stats must always be right. Not many users using extensions so we chop them. And so on...
19:15ThurahTindeed.. So sad.
19:15iMacAre they really so ignorant that they don't realize people who use Firefox want nothing to do with telemetry etc.?
19:16iMacI mean I use Firefox specifically because I can disable that stuff.
19:16ThurahTfrg, did you look at mbius? I don't know, but it could become something.
19:16XogiumI just can't stand console browser
19:16Xogiumyou'd think accessibility is nice with them, but no that's the contrary, it's a total mess
19:16ThurahTiMac: that is the question.. : )
19:17iMacI'll probably switch to SeaMonkey or QupZilla after Firefox 57.
19:17iMacAlready using SeaMonkey on my secondary machine that I don't use often.
19:18iMacGot tired of Firefox always having a "major" update each time I booted that thing uip.
19:18iMacup*
19:18Xogiumm'fine with sm 2.49.1 here
19:19iMacSpeaking of telemetry Do we have any idea how many users actually use the other parts of the SeaMonkey "suite" besides the browser?
19:20ThurahTI use the composer everyday.
19:20iMacI would personally prefer if they removed everything besides the browser.
19:20ThurahTokay.. But the mail client I do.. and cZ for some stuff : )
19:20XogiumI do use mail but that's about it, I'm not in any irc and all with it, I prefer irssi for that :p
19:21ThurahTiMac: that would make it a not suite.
19:21iMacWould be cool if they could move everything to separate extensions.
19:21iMacThurahT Yeah that's the point. It's what I personally want. :P
19:21ThurahT: )
19:21iMacI want a browser, not an Internet suite. I think that idea doesn't belong in 2017.
19:21Xogiumthen sm doesn't look like what you want
19:22iMacBrowser-wise it does.
19:22iMacThat's why it's a shame.
19:22ThurahTiMac: ever tried one of the firefox forks?
19:22iMacI just don't believe in having a package of half-assed everything. I'd rather cherry pick the best of everything.
19:22ThurahTpalemon has what you want extension wise and telemetry is ripped out.
19:22XogiumI'm fine having my mail and web all in one, that avoids me having to open a second program to check mails, mainly thunderbird because it's the only real accessible mail client yet again, and it uses as much ram as the browser itself so nop, definitely better this way
19:23ThurahTXogium: agree.
19:24Xogiumyou learn to be careful when you fire up software on a 2 gb ram machine
19:24iMac:eek:
19:24ThurahT: )
19:25iMacHow much RAM does SM use anyways? With mail also open.
19:25Xogiumabout 380 ~400 mb
19:27Xogiumlast time I tried to give 1 gb ram to a vm I ended up stuck and my sounds were playing in a loop, had to reboot forcefully
19:27XogiumXD
19:27Xogiumthat translates as, don't run a vm with firefox and thunderbird opened
19:28iMacI'm using Mail (macOS default) and it's using 70-80.
19:29Xogiumyeah.. Thunderbird is resources hungry
19:29Xogiumas are firefox and sm
19:29Xogiumbut I prefer having a resource hungry sm using about 400 mb ram than having sm+thunderbird using 400 mb ram each
19:30iMacBut on the other hand my IRC client uses a lot mores, so I'd probably profit overall by using SM mail.
19:30iMacAnd IRC. *
19:30iMacMemory use of Textual: 261,8 MB Visible lines: 13535
19:30Xogiumholly shit
19:30iMacYeah.
19:30Xogiummy irssi is using... 20 mb
19:30iMacUsing Textual on macOS.
19:30iMacCan't really compare to irssi though.
19:31iMacHas stuff like inline images.
19:31Xogiumah
19:31Xogiumyeah and a real gui I assume ?
19:31iMacYeah.
19:31Xogiumirssi is a console app
19:31iMacI know I use that on my secondary.
19:31Xogiumhehe
19:32iMac579 MB Firefox and 105 MB Firefox Web Content
19:32Xogiumusing it here with a self-hosted znc.. Well not hosted at home but I have complete control over the machine hosting it
19:32iMac375 MB + 40 MB on a clean start. With about:blank as start page.
19:33Xogiumthat's about what sm uses
19:33iMacAnd that's with literally no connections made (yet) and no content loaded.
19:33XogiumI can run sm for like 3 days before I have to close it
19:34iMacIs it leaking memory or why do you close it ever?
19:34iMacI never ever close Firefox except for updates.
19:34Xogiumsm will end up using almost 500 mb of ram by then, even with a cleaning up in about:memory, plus the screen reader that ends up also using 300 mb of ram.. Just, no
19:34iMacAnd except for just now because I was curious what it would use on a clean start
19:35iMacYou ever been to one of those sites with endless scrolling?
19:35iMacAKA pagination is just JavaScript loading more and more endlessly on the same page.
19:35Xogiumnot sure.. Maybe, can't really tell since I don't see the page as you see it, I think
19:36iMacSome blogs and stuff have that.
19:36iMacI've hit over 6 GB of RAM usage after visiting shit like that. =p
19:36Xogiumhmm, I'm playing on a game that use js to increase the resources counters in real time, but it's not really endless scrolling
19:37iMacI guess extensions will increase initial RAM usage.
19:37Xogiumand anyway js is evil. I disable it everywhere except on the website I really need it
19:37iMacBut they save big over time.
19:37iMacDepending on the type of course
19:38iMacYeah, uMatrix saves gigabytes of bloat every session.
19:38Xogiumyuck
19:38iMacNot a fan of uMatrix?
19:39Xogiumnot a fan of saving gig of stuff every session is more like it
19:39XogiumI have a 160 gb hard drive lol
19:40iMacI don't mean save to diskI mean saved me from loading that bloat.
19:40Xogiumoh
19:40Xogium:D
19:40Xogiummisunderstood XD
19:40iMacYou should check out uMatrix if you haven't already. Really great.
19:40ThurahTwell, the disk is saved in a sense though.
19:41ThurahTdoesn't have to load all the crap : )(
19:41ThurahTbtw, how do Americans internet? https://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2017/07/ajit-pai-not-concerned-about-number-of-pro-net-neutrality-comments/?comments=1 He has such a puncable face...
19:41ThurahT*punchable even
19:43Xogiumumatrix seems awefully visual..
19:45Xogiumlike you point and click.. Yeah, hardly doable when you're blind and can't really use a mouse XD
19:45ThurahTXogium: yeah, it is.. You click cells to either allow or block.. There is a under the hood text page though
19:45ThurahTlike ublock has chrome://umatrix/content/dashboard.html
19:47ThurahTso the rules read out like: * amazonaws.com * allow for instance.
19:47Xogiumoh
19:47Xogiummight be doable then..
19:47ThurahTwich means any site can access amazon webservices with any content set to allowed
19:48ThurahTyeah, doable.
19:48Xogiumhrm, is that too much if used with ublock ? Seems like they do both the same stuff but umatrix is more complete
19:49iMacWell uMatrix is very similar to uBlock Origin's Advanced Mode.
19:49iMacBut it's more granular.
19:49ThurahTwell, they do different things.. Like umatrix is like a noscript/request policy in one
19:49iMacYou have more content types to filter.
19:49ThurahTyeah.
19:50iMacI use uBlock Origin in regular mode along with uMattrix.
19:50iMacuMatrix*
19:51iMacuMatrix for the "firewall" / ReqPolicy usage and uBlock Origin for the adblock / cosmetic filtering capabilities.
19:51Xogiumso I can remove noscript and use umatrix..
19:51XogiumI will try to, at least. :D
19:51Xogiumshouldn't be hard..
19:52ThurahTsays the guy tinkering with boot loaders on scbs : )
19:53iMacXogium are you completely blind or "just" impaired?
19:53Xogiumcompletely :D
19:53ThurahT*sbcs.
19:53iMacIt does have color blind mode and stuff but the point and click matrix is pretty much unusable if blind.
19:53Xogiumnods
19:53Xogiumwill have to use the other way :p
19:54iMacIt's not impossible.
19:54iMacYou can use the logger chrome://umatrix/content/logger-ui.html
19:54iMacTo see what's blocked.
19:54iMacAnd unbreak from there.
19:54iMacAnd filters are made up like ThurahT explained.
19:54iMacBut it certainly loses a lot of its ease of sue.
20:03ThurahTit used to be one and the same extension. http switch board. But it had some weaknesses which separating it into two different tools mended.
20:05Xogiumyeah.. It will be a pain more than anything else really.. I don't see myself reading that log each time to unblock paypal or whatever website I try to read a tutorial on just cause it wants javascript
20:06ThurahTprobably so. Yeah. But it is really just a compliment ot ublock Origin if you want that extra control.
20:06ThurahTIf eel it is a bit redundant for everyday use. If you don't have an extensive rule list.
20:07Xogiumwell I'm not against it, but there's not even a thing in the contextual menu that I could use to quickly block/unblock js and stuff, like noscript does
20:07ThurahTthat is true.
20:07ThurahTHey, Xogium. Did you protest on the streets the other day?
20:08ThurahTregarding the net neutrality? : )
20:08Xogiumcause it's litterally point and click, that's what is making it easy.. Using rules from logs is just asking for a pain lol
20:09XogiumI would have liked to, but I'm really sick and couldn't even get out of bed
20:09ThurahTsummer cold?
20:09Xogiumnah, worse than that
20:09ThurahTmy sister was under for 12 days.
20:10ThurahToh. Well, hope it sort out.
20:10Xogiumm'starting my what ? Third month
20:10XogiumI think
20:14ThurahTwell, hope you can rid yourself of it eventually.
21:16frg_awayn8 all and be civilized :)
23:48peevesHi Guys
23:49peevesWhat is the workaround for sync at the moment?
15 Jul 2017
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