mozilla :: #firefox

20 Apr 2017
00:10smcmurrayfirefox 52 won't display https://fonts.google.com because Error: The operation is insecure. @ java/com/google/fonts/directory/ui/angular_js.js:119:176
02:28azakihttps://wiki.mozilla.org/index.php?title=RapidRelease/Calendar&diff=1167905&oldid=1164951
02:28azakican someone explain this edit?
02:29azaki"Changed schedule to reflect eliminating the aurora cycle"
02:29azakiwhat exactly is happening to developer edition?
02:29azakihttps://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar#Future_branch_dates
02:30azakithis edit has changed all of the releases for aurora/devedition to "n/a"
02:31azakiCaspy7: any clue?
02:31Caspy7azaki: the Aurora branch is going away, Dev Edition users will be migrated to Dev Edition Beta. They'll get the same experience, just technically on a different branch
02:32sam113101wat
02:32azakiwait, i'm not sure i understand..
02:32Caspy7apparently Dev users are technically in limbo over the next several weeks as they're going to migrate dev users between now and...June I think
02:32sam113101how many branches will there be now
02:32Caspy7any security issues will get updates apparently
02:33Caspy7sam113101: 3
02:33sam113101aren't there only 3 already?
02:33sam113101or is it 4?
02:33azakiare you saying that aurora and beta are being replaced by just "dev edition beta" ?
02:33sam113101release beta dev nightly?
02:34Caspy7sam113101: Nightly > Aurora > Beta > Release (4) is now Nightly > Beta > Release (3)
02:35Caspy7azaki: Dev edition was a rebrand of Aurora. Now Aurora is going away completely and Dev will be a rebrand of Beta
02:35sam113101which one was teh dev edition?
02:35Caspy7aurora
02:35azakiso dev edition will no longer be two versions ahead of release...?
02:35azaki=\
02:35azakibeta is only one version ahead
02:35sam113101honestly I think it's better this way
02:35sam113101less confusing
02:35guybrushhey there, is my firefox broken or is this generally not working yet? https://cdn.rawgit.com/jakearchibald/80368b84ac1ae8e229fc90b3fe826301/raw/df4cae41fa658c4ec1fa7b0d2de05f8ba6d43c94/
02:36guybrushi.e. serviceworkers
02:36sam113101I see an image
02:36azakii don't care about the rebranding, but i do care that suddenly it's only going to be one version ahead instead of two.
02:36Caspy7guybrush: works for me
02:36guybrushsure look at the console
02:36azakii kind of liked that dev edition allowed us to get some stuff ahead of time
02:36guybrushit says encountered an error during installation
02:36azakinow it's only one version ahead
02:36Caspy7guybrush: I can also tell you that I use some services that rely on serviceworkers
02:37Caspy7guybrush: you may also like to check out about:serviceworkers
02:37sam113101btw that's a dog, not a cat
02:37sam113101wait wat
02:37guybrushCaspy7, it says No Service Workers registered.
02:37sam113101I got a dog the first time
02:37guybrushsam113101, https://developers.google.com/web/fundamentals/instant-and-offline/service-worker/lifecycle
02:37sam113101now it's a cat
02:37guybrushits ok
02:37guybrushthats how it should be
02:38guybrushso i guess my firefox is broken then somehow :/
02:38Caspy7guybrush: I get a service worker for it
02:38guybrushhmmm
02:38Caspy7try in a fresh profile
02:38Caspy7or safe mode
02:39guybrushTypeError: navigator.serviceWorker is undefined
02:39guybrushin save mode
02:39guybrushhmm i dont know how to make a fresh profile
02:39guybrushmaybe i just uninstall and reinstall fresh
02:39guybrushalso i have installed nightly in parallel maybe that is the problem?
02:41guybrushhaha somehow i had x86 and 64bit installed at the same time
02:41azakiis nightly the same as "central" on the release calendar?
02:43guybrushhmmmm
02:43guybrushreinstalling didnt help
02:43guybrushi guess there is still somewhere some "profile" data?
02:43Caspy7no, it wouldn't
02:43guybrushcan i reset this?
02:43Caspy7one sec
02:44Caspy7guybrush: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/profile-manager-create-and-remove-firefox-profiles#w_starting-the-profile-manager
02:45guybrushCaspy7, thanks! everything seems to work now
02:46guybrushi must have done something wrong in the old profile (did lots of experiments and stuff)
02:50Caspy7ah
02:50Caspy7glad to help
02:52azakianyone have an idea on what i asked? is "central" the nightly release channel? https://wiki.mozilla.org/RapidRelease/Calendar#Future_branch_dates
02:52guybrushazaki, i _guess_ its the stable channel
02:53Caspy7azaki: the answer is yes
02:53guybrushah yes i was wrong
02:53azakiguybrush: it can't be the stable channel when it's 2 versions ahead =p
02:53guybrushtrue :p
02:53azakiCaspy7: ok, so basically if i want the same cutting-edgeness that i used to get with dev edition i'll have to switch to nightly. =\
02:54azakidoes anyone here use nightly as their everyday browser? any issues?
02:54Caspy7azaki: I disagree
02:54Caspy7Beta will now be just as cutting edge as Aurora was
02:55Caspy7one step from Nightly
02:56azakiwell, it's only one version ahead, right? dev edition used to be two versions ahead of release. like for instance, i think we talked about how the lazy tabs work was aiming to make it in by firefox 56, if the aurora channel was still around, that would've arrived in dev edition sooner than in beta.
02:56azakilike a month or two in advance
02:57Caspy7azaki: you don't measure it by how far till release, you measure it by how close to Nightly
02:57Caspy7that's how close it is to "the cutting edge"
02:58guybrushhaha now after fixing the profile-problem firefox is very fast again :DDD very nice
02:58Caspy7great
02:59azakiCaspy7: hm, i suppose.. but given that like you said, they're now keeping firefox 55 in central for another cycle, doesn't it still mean that things have sort of been slowed down?
02:59guybrushfaster then chrome with my experiments :D nice, and nightly even is more fast omg
02:59azakior does this mean the merge window for 55 has been extended or something?
03:00azakior feature freeze, or whatever =o
03:00Caspy7azaki: 55 will get another 6 weeks of development, but it's now new code that 56 would have seen
03:01azakiah, hm, ok. i guess i'll keep an eye on what's going on with the lazy tabs work and see if they manage to get it in. seems like that one huge patch i linked last time is ready to land
03:01Caspy7guybrush: there's a lot of working going on right now to improve performance
03:01azakihttps://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345090
03:01firebotBug 1345090 ASSIGNED, kevinhowjones@gmail.com Modify SessionStore to restore tabs with lazy-browsers
03:01guybrushCaspy7, especially webgl and webworkers perform _really_ well
03:01azakidao asked for a try run, which i'm guessing is some automated test suite thing
03:01Caspy7yeah, some movement happening there
03:02azakiseems to have completed now so it may finally land in the next day or two, fingers crossed =3
03:02Caspy7:)
03:02Caspy7guybrush: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum
03:03guybrushyeah i read about that, but my ff didnt perform so well lately haha
03:04Caspy7guybrush: did you start with a fresh profile?
03:04guybrushyes
03:04guybrushit worked wonders
03:04Caspy7yeah, for one incompatible addons can disable multiprocess
03:05Caspy7and some addons in general can just hurt performance
03:06guybrushmh i am pretty sure that i did something wrong in the settings (enabling feautures which are not meant to be enabled for every-day browsing maybe)
03:06un214I wonder if I should just disable multiprocess
03:06un214all the processes end up with attached input queues anyway
03:07Caspy7guybrush: yeah, that'll do it too
03:07guybrushfor what its worth, webworkers really perform much better now in ff than in chrome (no numbers, just feeling)
03:12azakihm, by the way, beta doesn't have daily builds like aurora had, right?
03:15Caspy7https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2017/04/report-google-will-add-an-ad-blocker-to-all-versions-of-chrome-web-browser/
03:18azakio_o
03:18azakihell has officially frozen over
03:18Caspy7azaki: I'm not as familliar with it's release schedule, but yeah, don't think it's daily
03:18* azaki goes out to check for flying pigs
03:18guybrushit wont block google-ads ofc
03:20Caspy7I haven't really read the whole article yet, but my first suspicion is that at the very least it won't block trackers
03:20Caspy7ads themselves nowadays aren't horribly effective
03:21azakii figured they would only block invasive ads, even before reading the article, but even so, it's a surprise to see them make this move since it could open them to antitrust litigation.
03:21azakifrom other advertisers
03:22guybrushthe most effective ads are those that are not identifiable as ads, like articles or films with placed products
03:22azakiusing your dominance in one market to influence another is exactly what got microsoft in trouble back in the day.
03:22est31EU is busy with themselves
03:22est31and Trump wont be mad to any US company
03:23est31but yeah the news is really amazing
03:24un214I personally am astounded that it got built stock into any browser
03:24est31vivaldi got it built in
03:24Caspy7it's in Brave
03:24est31err brave
03:24est31yeah
03:24est31too many chromium derivates
03:25azakiest31: unless he confirms our worst fears and goes full autocrat on us, he can't intervene in a court battle between two companies.
03:25azakipresidents are not all powerful, if they were, the usa would have universal healthcare by now. =p
03:25est31thats true, but us court system is broken
03:26est31it can go on and on and on
03:26est31especially if two companies are involved that have tons of money to spend on lawyers
03:26est31like oracle vs google
03:26est31much of digital world is unchartered territory
03:26azakisure. but that's another issue.
03:27azakii feel fortunate to live in canada though. =p
03:27azakii was born in america though, my parents moved to canada when i was a child.
03:27Caspy7maybe let's turn down the politics, getting a bit off topic
03:29est31well if that announcement shows something, then its that google is not dogmatic and is ready to adapt to change
03:30est31meaning that long term it will survive
03:30est31(without having to cry to lawmakers to protect their way of making money so that they dont have to adapt)
03:32azakiyeah, unlike other IT companies who use patents offensively against open source. or big oil / big pharma also come to mind.
03:33azakiapparently the last few mp3 patents and s3tc opengl patents expire this year. =o
03:33est31or taxi industry / hotel industry with airbnb / uber
03:33est31I think the last mp3 patent actually expired recently
03:34azakiso that's good. now we can ship mp3 legally in open source in countries that have software patents
03:34est31yes.
03:34est31still, its outdated technology, opus is better
03:34Caspy7est31: apparently MP3 expired just the other day
03:34Caspy7yeah, no reason not to use Opus
03:34azakih264 and aac unfortunately will take another decade i think.
03:34est31advantage of mp3 over opus is larger support
03:34est31more browsers support it, etc
03:34Caspy7yeah, was going to say that
03:35Caspy7the catch
03:35azakiyeah, that's the main reason it's important. old formats never go away unfortunately =c
03:35est31and if you have something encoded as mp3, you suffer generational loss if you transcode to opus
03:35azakii still have some old mpeg2 stuff on my hard drive somewhere..
03:35est31so rather don't do it unless you have to
03:36est31unless.... you have stashed the uncompressed original somewhere
03:36azakiwhich is also expiring i think this year, although i think a few mpeg2 patents will expire in 2018, and some others this year.
03:36un214xz compressed wave for the win
03:36azakiest31: you could still switch containers, if the mp3 file extension annoys you ;D
03:37est31azaki: lol
03:37azakiuse matroska
03:37azakimka
03:37est31lolol
03:37azakiyou'd also get better metadata support than id3 tags i believe.
03:37azakimka is a real thing i'm not joking =p
03:37est31yes
03:38est31still, there would be no technical improvement by the container other than perhaps than the metadata support
03:38est31or maybe better seeking support
03:38est31as for example ogg has no support for seeking tables you need to do a bisection search haha
03:39est31(ogg with one stream at least)
03:39est31like in ogg/vorbis
03:39azakiaccording to an article on osnews from awhile back, H264 wont expire until 2027
03:39azakinot sure about AAC but i think they were being developed at around the same time, so maybe similar time frame
03:40est31ogg does specify seeking tables, but using them with standard ogg/vorbis is not allowed, only one stream is allowed
03:42est31even if videos can be decoded fully open source, there are many areas of computing to provide open alternatives for
03:42est31path towards fully open source world is long and stony
03:42azakioh, apparently AC-3 audio also expired recently. although that's not significant for the web
03:42azakibut it is for open source media players
03:43est31glad to see stuff like mozilla open speech going on, trying to poke at some of those new areas and providing tools to open them
03:44est31mozilla deepspech*
03:44est31deepspeech*
03:44azakihm, weird, some sources say aac might expire in 2018, but i'm not finding any confirmation on this.. that would be really good if true. =o
03:45est31that sounds too good to be true
03:45azakii'm also wondering if stuff like aac+ and he-aac require different decoders or if it's just encoding techniques that were developed later. =o
03:46azakiapparently the first aac standard was standardized in 1997, so i dunno.
03:56Caspy7one interesting thing coming up is that Google, Microsoft and Mozilla are all in on AV1 and plan to support it basically immediately
03:56Caspy7that should happen next year
04:02Caspy7so that includes the majority of desktop and mobile browsers, and Windows and linux
04:07azakiyeah, that's another thing i'm really looking forward to.
04:07azakiunfortunately it's probably gonna take an extra year for the hardware support to show up
04:08azakii'm planning to buy a GPU soon, so i guess i'll plan another upgrade for 2019 or so, which hopefully will coincide with hardware AV1 encoding/decoding in GPUs =3
04:10Caspy7the original plan was to freeze the bitstream early this year and have hardware out by the end, so guessing the plan would be similar for next year, though a bit earlier hopefully
04:12Caspy7given they're looking to freeze around November I think
10:47machey
10:47macI've read news about improvements in ff
10:49macI mean the Quantum COmpositor
10:50macbut in the news they mentioned only about Windows
10:50macwhat about Linux ?
10:52Timvdemac: You can enable it in Linux, but 1) hardware acceleration is not generally enabled, so it only makes a difference if you force enable it, and 2) the compositing process is far from stable, it often crashes for me (but, as it should, that doesn't take down Firefox)
10:52machm
10:53macok but if the change also is on Linux or on Linux there is an old acceleration which must be forced ?
10:53macand on Windows, how can I check if I have this enabled ?
10:54Timvdemac: layers.acceleration.force-enabled
10:54elofHi! Is the following a problem in FF and if so, can it be solved?
10:54elofIn Jira, when I click on the description field to edit the text, the cursor is nowdays placed at the *bottom* at the text.
10:54elofBefore (a few weeks ago) the cursor was placed at the top.
10:54TimvdeWorks great for me, but I have heard people say it makes their Firefox completely unusable
10:54elofI'd like to get this behavior back. Is it possible via e.g. about:config?
10:55Timvdeelof: Are you sure this is a Firefox change, and not a Jira change?
10:55macTimvde: do I have to restart the browser to take effect ?
10:55Timvdemac: yes
10:55elofTimvde: Not entirely sure, but I don't think we've updated Jira.
10:55macTimvde: it is in about:config ?
10:56Timvdemac: yes
10:57macthx
10:58elofTimvde: Non FF users get their cursor at the top. So I think this is a FF issue.
10:58macI tried it week ago on an old Sempron 2200+ machine with GeFroce AGP 8x 128MB card but I've ended up with black window ...
11:06Timvdeelof: I have no idea what could cause it, sorry. Site-specific issues are often hard to debug when I don't have access to the site that shows the bug :)
11:24Timvde"About 70 percent of Windows users will get the benefit -- those using updated versions of Windows 7, 8 and 10 on machines with Intel, Nvdia and AMD graphics hardware."
11:24TimvdeWoah, does 30% of users not fall into that category? O.o
12:15MardegXP
12:19TimvdeMardeg: Sure, but 30%?!
13:20akjhskjoups
13:20akjhskjhttps://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/53.0/system-requirements/
13:20akjhskjsomeone removed Mac OS X 10.12 in the system requirement page
13:20akjhskjby accident :)
13:31firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - http://planet.mozilla.org/ :
13:31firebot Mozilla Reps Community: Reps Program Objectives Q2 2017
13:31firebot https://blog.mozilla.org/mozillareps/2017/04/20/reps-program-objectives-q2-2017/
13:39est31Mardeg: Timvde: 53 has no XP support any more
13:39est31https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/53.0/releasenotes/
13:45WillPittengerGoogle may build ad-blocking into Chrome | PCWorld ( http://www.pcworld.com/article/3191290/internet/google-reportedly-plans-ad-blocking-feature-for-chrome-browser.html#tk.rss_all )
13:51firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - http://planet.mozilla.org/ :
13:51firebot Mozilla Localization (L10N): Localizing Firefox in Barcelona
13:51firebot https://blog.mozilla.org/l10n/2017/04/20/localizing-firefox-in-barcelona/
13:54nONo|DodOsince they have lost from juve, they have extra time to localize in barcelona
13:56kazumasuggestion
13:57kazumawhen firefox updates like it just did, and restarts, instead of showing a firefox enter your email page, or the standard homepage
13:57kazumait should open a changelog
14:43ciupicriwhy won't firefox-52.0.2-2.fc25.x86_64 open a local file telling me "Access to the file was denied"? The file is there and Chrome has no issues opening it. In case it matters, the file is shared by a samba server running on the same machine.
14:46firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - http://planet.mozilla.org/ :
14:46firebot QMO: Firefox 54 Beta 3 Testday, April 28th
14:46firebot https://quality.mozilla.org/2017/04/firefox-54-beta-3-testday-april-28th/
15:39LinnakHi, Can you help me? Why crashes Firefoy all the time when I open a private window?
15:43MossopLinnak: Do you see recent crashes listed if you go to about:crashes?
15:45LinnakNo: 17. 03. 09.
15:45LinnakIt wants to load the page but it can't
15:46MossopWhat does it say instead?
15:46TylerLinnak: what version of Firefox are you running?
15:46Linnak53
15:46Tylerhave you tried refreshing Firefox?
15:46LinnakIt did with version 52 as well
15:47LinnakJust updated to 53 and it did it again. It was 32bit. Now I'm on 64bit. Same problem
15:47TylerLinnak: is Firefox crashing (closing unexpectedly) when you go to private browsing, or not loading pages? Different things
15:47LinnakNot loading page and I cna't close window just kill process. It means to me a srash
15:48Tylerok, so that's not a crash, it sounds maybe a freeze
15:48TylerLinnak: type about:support into your address bar, press Enter
15:48Tylerthen click "Refresh Firefox"
15:49LinnakAt the moment it's working thanks. Now I'm sync my accont
15:49Tylerdid you refresh? Or did it just start working?
15:50LinnakI refreshed. Actually it's sinced what it could.
15:50LinnakNow I install plugins
15:51TylerLinnak: great, glad it's working! Keep in mind it could have been an extension you installed that caused the behavior, so watch carefully if you install extensions in the future, if it happens again after installing a new add-on that is likely a buggy add-on
15:52Linnakadblock plus, classic theme restorer, a theme, and a zoom
15:53Caspy7Linnak: I'd recommend uBlock Origin over Adblock Plus nowadays. It is as effective if not more and more performant and better on memory consumption
15:54LinnakRight. I switched them
15:54Caspy7
15:55LinnakCool. Everything works fine. Thank you
15:56Caspy7np
16:06LinnakHey, I've figured out what's the problem. It happened again
16:07LinnakIn Classic Theme Restorer addon I set the 'New Tab Page url' to www.google.com and then happens
16:08LinnakIf I delet it it works
16:51firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - http://planet.mozilla.org/ :
16:51firebot The Mozilla Blog: This April, Mozilla is Standing Up for Science
16:51firebot https://blog.mozilla.org/blog/2017/04/20/april-mozilla-standing-science/
16:57ToraxMalusalve
16:57ToraxMaluhas someone the contact to the webmaster of the homepage
16:58ToraxMaluand 2nd the download adress of the ESR-release?
17:05kbrosnanToraxMalu: what page?
17:06ToraxMalumozilla.org
17:06ToraxMaluthe german ff-channel helped me to find the ESR-variant
17:08ToraxMalunot very helpful to run in circles between the donwloader and the normal fullinstaller
17:10ToraxMaluokay - cu and have a nice evening
17:29nox1Question. I'm trying to download a file off a website and I'm receiving the error message: http://sysv.se/mozerror.png
17:30nox1I did a quick google which suggested to disabled extensions, to restart firefox, to remove compreg.dat and so forth. None of which has worked.
17:30nox1I haven't run into this before and firefox was recently updated today so I figure it might be related to that.
17:33kbrosnannox1: do you have $TEMP set?
17:36firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - http://planet.mozilla.org/ :
17:36firebot Air Mozilla: Reps Weekly Meeting Apr. 20, 2017
17:36firebot https://air.mozilla.org/reps-weekly-meeting-apr-20-2017/
17:49nox1kbrosnan: $TEMP?
18:28nemoSo... the whole killing off extensions thing is making me sad, and was trying to plan what my fallback would be
18:28nemogandalf said I should ask here instead of in #developers
18:28nemoIt seems from eyeballing https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/organizations/faq/ that the timing for extension-killing vs ESR is pretty terrible
18:28nemohas mozilla been considering pushing it back to next ESR?
18:29MossopNo
18:29nemoalso... is there any possibility that there might be an about:config override?
18:29MossopThere will be in nightly, but things will start breaking very quickly
18:29nemo:/
18:29nemowelp... I guess there's the option of running unupdated browser in a sandbox
18:30nemoMossop: but basically. just 6 months of ESR grace period then?
18:30MossopSomething like that
18:30nemo'k
18:30nemohm. wonder what seamonkey guys are planning to do
18:31nemooooh. maybe palemoon
18:33MossopHah
18:33nemoMossop: that was serious!
18:33MossopOh. Sorry
18:34Caspy7nemo: it seems that to run Pale Moon is to join a cult at this point. Also it has a poor record of implementing security fixes
18:35nemoCaspy7: well. obv not thrilled w/ it
18:35nemoCaspy7: but. some security fixes is better than no security fixes
18:36jiridoHi. I'm on a 64 Manjaro/ArchLinux mashine with Compiz Emerald and GTK. Some 2-3 weeks ago my usual black theme stopped working in Thunderbird and firefox.. what have changed
18:36Caspy7nemo: can you mention some of the blockers that aren't available as webextensions?
18:36nemoCaspy7: tabcandy, noscript
18:36nemoCaspy7: no idea about my other ones
18:36nemoCaspy7: is there a flag I can turn on in nightly to see what happens to my extensions?
18:37nemowell. I guess they all just break heh
18:37nemosince they are all xul
18:37Caspy7jirido: which theme? Is it a Firefox theme ot GTK theme?
18:37SoItBeginsoh god
18:37SoItBeginswhats the fix for classic theme restorer?
18:37jiridogtk
18:37jiridoCaspy7: gtk
18:37Caspy7nemo: I believe NoScript is being ported
18:38Caspy7nemo: I'm not finding tab candy, do you mean tab groups? can you link?
18:39nemoCaspy7: https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1214733 has had basically no activity
18:39Caspy7nemo: not all XUL is being removed immediately, but in 57 they are going to start pulling out stuff
18:39firebotBug 1214733 NEW, nobody@mozilla.org [tracking] Support NoScript as a WebExtension
18:39nemoCaspy7: Tab Groups - extension created when it was pulled from firefox - author wrote a long piece about how he was giving up
18:39nemono one has stepped up to replace so far
18:40nemohttp://fasezero.com/lastnotice.html
18:40Caspy7someone, perhaps Timvde linked something recently about folks who wanted to continue the work on it
18:40Caspy7yeah, I know
18:40MossopCaspy7: XUL add-ons will stop working basically immediately
18:41Caspy7Mossop: we were talking about Nightly at that second I think
18:41Caspy7do you know the enable/disable flag btw?
18:41nemoCaspy7: well, I guess if enough of 'em get fixed, 6 months would be enough time to hide out on ESR
18:41MossopCaspy7: I'm talking about nightly too
18:42Caspy7ok
18:42Caspy7I was under the impression that not all XUL stuff was being pulled immediately
18:42Caspy7some stuff may break some may not
18:42Caspy7nemo: I haven't read much of it but https://github.com/Quicksaver/Tab-Groups/issues/535
18:43MossopCaspy7: The feature that causes XUL add-ons to be loaded is going to get removed pretty quickly as it will speed up performance. Bootstrapped add-ons will likely remain working for some time
18:43Caspy7gotcha
18:44Caspy7do you know the flag to toggle legacy on nightly?
18:44MossopI don't think it's been written yet
18:44Caspy7nemo: ^
18:44nemo'k
18:45Caspy7someone at that last link also linked to bug 1333837 which also has a comment to bug 1357214
18:46firebothttps://bugzil.la/1333837 NEW [meta] Tab management enhancements (existing tab infrastructure)
18:46firebothttps://bugzil.la/1357214 NEW Tab Groups API
18:46Caspy7so you're welcome to have a look there
18:46TimvdeCaspy7: I don't know of anyone who is going to continue Tab Groups. There are still some blocking bugs, by the way.
18:47Caspy7Kevin Jones filed the last I linked. Which is interesting
18:53SoItBeginsQuestion: What can XUL do that WebExt not (yet) do?
18:55Caspy7legacy addons have complete and full access to do basically anything in the browser.
18:55Caspy7which is a double edged sword
18:55SoItBeginsMmhm.
18:55Caspy7able to do cool things as well as break the browser, make it less secure and stable
18:55Caspy7and performant
18:56Caspy7also many of them are inherently synchronous in their design, which is incompatible with multiprocess
19:01mssIs mozilla planning to offer some additional WebExt APIs, besides what is implemented in chromium?
19:02MossopWe already do I think, I just can't remember which
19:04TimvdeThere's the sidebar API
19:05Caspy7some planned (implemented?) UI APIs
19:06TimvdeIt's pretty unclear yet which these will be, though
19:07SoItBeginsCaspy7: So do you think, in your personal opinion, that the switch is worth it?
19:08Caspy7SoItBegins: the defense of the answer is longer, but ultimately yes
19:08DaggerSoItBegins: I'm gonna go with "that's a leading question", because it doesn't need to be a switch at all
19:08Caspy7not a full approval of the complete gameplan as it's being implemented, but generally, yes
19:09SoItBeginsDagger: Sorry. But theyre implementing it as a switch, so thats how I...
19:09SoItBeginsyeah.
19:09Caspy7SoItBegins: it seems that Dagger's answer would be "no"
19:10TimvdeI'd say yes too, but 1) The cut-off of traditional add-ons is way too aggressive imo, and 2) Mozilla has WONTFIXed some API requests which existing add-ons really need, so I'm not really conviced yet that WE APIs will turn out to be powerful enough
19:11Daggeradding WEs is very much worth doing, removing classic extensions is very much not worth doing
19:12TimvdeDagger: I'd even support a transition to a more controlled system, like native.js was
19:15ramz-e225hello I am brand new and just looking for some help on a MDN project really don't know where to look
19:16ramz-e225just learning JS and having trouble with the Image Gallery project any suggestions on where to ask for help are appreciated
19:17mssRecently I disabled JS for a while. Websites feel so much snappier. Is there any way JS speed could still be improved ? I like the what webassembly brings to the table, but i fear it could lead to websites serving us random binaries (maybe even DRM'd and decoded in hardware) in the future
19:18Caspy7mss: running a blocker like uBlock Origin will help some. Ads use up a lot of JS
19:18Caspy7then there's NoScript
19:19Timvdemss: The problem is not JS speed, it's the shitload of crappy JS webdevs write
19:19Caspy7yup
19:22DuClareAnd if they use webassembly to reduce size & speed up parsing, someone will use that as an excuse to deploy even more code.
19:26TimvdeIt's Wirth's law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wirth%27s_law
19:33Caspy7https://www.wired.com/2016/04/average-webpage-now-size-original-doom/
19:35SeburoCaspy7: Wow, great story.
19:36Caspy7please also note: https://gigaom.com/2014/12/29/the-overweight-web-average-web-page-size-is-up-15-in-2014/
19:36Caspy7which breaks down what's taking up space on pages
19:37Caspy7from 2014 mind you
19:40guigsIs it expected for the Primetime Content Decryption Module to automatically download in Windows 10 firefox 53? I am having a time with this: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/questions/1157003#answer-961049
19:40kbrosnanyes
19:42Caspy7yup
19:42Caspy7guigs: unless it's an EME free version, it will begin downloading shortly after install - or running at least
19:43Caspy7some linux distribution builds will also have it disabled by default
19:45mssHow does EME work anyway? Like what does it do to avoid framebuffer capture? Does it decode on some special part of the cpu like intel ME and DMA it to GPU?
19:53Caspy7mss: EME stands for Encrypted Media Extensions, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encrypted_Media_Extension
19:53Caspy7specification for providing a communication channel between web browsers and digital rights management (DRM) agent software
19:56Caspy7guigs: you could try #media to get input on the question you linked - like how long it could take to download
19:57mssI know, its just a spec. I guess i mean the actual plugins
19:58mssI mean it cannot just be a sandboxed thingy you throw an encoded stream, and get back video or it wouldnt make any sense
19:59est31mss: i think the answer depends on the plugin
19:59mssDoes it talk with GPU drivers or something?
19:59est31no idea
19:59est31dont think so though.
19:59est31because it works well on linux, and I'm sure that nobody has implemented DRM on linux
19:59mssWould the firefox sandbox even allow any hardware access?
20:00est31mss: I think most of the EME inside firefox is very good snake oil
20:00est31that's why I dont mind having it
20:01mssWell, they do have a way to communicate with intel ME built into linux
20:01msshttp://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/drivers/staging/mei/mei.txt?v=3.2
20:02mssAnd i think i heard it has some DRM functions
20:03mssAnyway, i guess i still prefer it to flash and silverlight
20:03Caspy7est31: you mean no one has implemented *hardware* DRM on linux, yes?
20:05est31Caspy7: admittedly I dont know
20:05Caspy7well, widevine is DRM and it's on linux in Firefox
20:06Caspy7as well as Chrome
20:06Caspy7then there was PrimeTime
20:06mssI guess what he means, is that noone would patch a driver for DRM into linux, but considering how much of the driver code is in userspace, i dont think it really matters.
20:06mssKernel is just passing the instructions
20:07est31Caspy7: but I do know that microsoft has boasted about its new super secure DRM in edge in some blog post, and that netflix requires that super secure DRM
20:07mssYeah, for anything >720p anyway
20:07est31layReady Security Level 3000
20:07Caspy7yeah, that's integrating with both the OS and with hardware iirc
20:08est31https://www.microsoft.com/playready/features/EnhancedContentProtection.aspx
20:10mssDRM is so backwards, pirates will get the content anyway, like they can just rig a screen to send the raw pixels to some recorder instead of the panel
20:11est31yeah, its a losing battle
20:11msshttps://xkcd.com/129/
20:11guigskbrosnan: Caspy7 ty!
20:12est31its an issue of our time, we are becoming very good at storing and retrieving info
20:12est31the good, the bad
20:12est31its impossible to delete nude pics of yourself from the net, as its impossible to delete all pirate content
20:13est31you can try, but there will be always ways the stuff spreads
20:13* Caspy7 uploads nudes to test this
20:14est31it has so many positive applications
20:14mssEnen more so with stuff like IPFS, cjdns, blockchains and such
20:14nemomss: yeah. that intel ME thing is pretty creepy - turning over control of your computer to Intel
20:14est31like you can download wikipedia onto your usb stick
20:14nemomss: I wonder what EME does on AMD (which yes I know has similar stuff) or ARM - not so much
20:15nemomss: https://www.alexrad.me/discourse/why-rosyna-cant-take-a-movie-screenshot.html
20:15mssBut i'm not sure they have so many "features"
20:19est31The HDMI master keys have leaked to the internet, its possible to decrypt from an HDMI cable
20:20nemoest31: oh really? interesting. I mean, I don't have any great desire to do so
20:20nemoest31: but it's nice that all that waste heat and power my microusb to hdmi cable is demanding is totally useless operations
20:21nemoest31: and all the ways in which linux users get screwed over are pointless
20:35Caspy7est31: if you're interested in reading recent news regarding HEVC http://streaminglearningcenter.com/blogs/av1-gets-closer-hevc-gets-expensive.html
20:36est31cool
20:36Caspy7(in part as it relates to AV1)
20:36est31the more expensive HEVC is, the better for AV1
20:41Caspy7est31: from the article, it sounded like all but one patent holder are accounted for - though I think for MPEG Advance that their current conditions are technically only good for 5 years
20:41Caspy7so there's still uncertainty there
20:47azakiCaspy7: It's been pushed =3 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1345090#c90
20:47firebotBug 1345090 ASSIGNED, kevinhowjones@gmail.com Modify SessionStore to restore tabs with lazy-browsers
20:47Caspy7azaki: I'm CCed on that bug too :)
20:47azakiah, not sure how this works, does this mean it's merged already? or does it need to be accepted or something
20:48azakionce it's actually in central i'll be tempted to install nightly just to try it out. XD
20:49Caspy7azaki: I don't know if the code for that bug completely enables it or not, but I think it will be included in tomorrow's Nightly build
20:49Caspy7again, unsure if it will be technically enabled
20:49Caspy7maybe the code will just be technically "there"
20:50azakii think it might be since i read the whole thread of this bug and they seemed to be talking as if this was like the last major piece, and they also added a pref in about:config to enable it
20:50azakibrowser.sessionstore.restore_tabs_lazily
20:51Caspy7ah, sweet, you may be right
20:52azakifrom what i saw the rest of the blockers seem to be polish, like situations where some stuff like devtools will cause a lazy tab to become active unnecessarily, etc.
20:52azakiwhich if you aren't using the devtools won't affect you for now
23:14thoreauGood night.
23:15thoreauI'm using firefox-esr 45.9.0esr-1~deb8u1 in a Debian Jessie and I'm not getting any audio feedback from it.
23:17thoreauI've read somewhere that firefox depends on pulseaudio for that, so I also have it installed in the version 7.1-2~bpo8+1
23:21thoreauhelp!
23:21firebotthoreau: Welcome to #firefox! Just ask your question and someone should be with you shortly. If you don't get an answer after a while, you can try taking a look through the support site: https://support.mozilla.org/
23:22thoreauI'm using firefox-esr 45.9.0esr-1~deb8u1 in a Debian Jessie and I'm not getting any audio feedback from it.
23:22thoreauI've read somewhere that firefox depends on pulseaudio for that, so I also have it installed in the version 7.1-2~bpo8+1
23:30MossopPulseaudio wasn't required for a version that old
23:32thoreauWell, other possible suspects?
23:33* Mossop has no idea
23:33Caspy7thoreau: is this a distro build or Mozilla. You could try Mozilla's build
23:34Caspy7also, check out about:buildconfig and look at the config options, could help...maybe
23:37thoreau"target: x86_64-pc-linux-gnu" is this the distro build version you refer to Caspy7?
23:38Caspy7thoreau: yeah, frequently we get people using the distro build and it has an issue, then they try the build from Mozilla and it works just fine
23:39thoreauHm...
21 Apr 2017
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