mozilla :: #firefox

18 Mar 2017
01:39Caspy7I had been using a button from the Custom Buttons addon, but that is no longer available. I used it to toggle all Stylish styles on/off.
01:39Caspy7Does anyone have any ideas for another solution?
01:45Tiger_Stripesfor esr being extended update thing sure have been a lot of updates recently
01:45Tiger_Stripes52.0.1 now
01:45Tiger_Stripeshttps://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/52.0.1/releasenotes/
01:54Caspy7Tiger_Stripes: so, 1 is a lot?
01:54Tiger_Stripesthink there was 2 or 3 in a week
02:04MardegThey're probably worried about the upcoming Pwn2Own competition
02:05Mardegor maybe competitors in that aren't too good at preventing leaks of what they've found
02:06Mardegit's in the interest of rival competitors to get Firefox patched against each other's exploits so they're the ones left with the prize
02:07Burdshow does firefox make money in the first place
02:08Caspy7Burds: they've been working to diversify, but the primary income source currently is search partnerships
02:08Caspy7notably what the default search engine is
02:08Burdspeople pay firefox just to set a default search engine?
02:09Burdsand thats enough to pay the salaries of all the staff?
02:09Caspy7yes
02:09Caspy7there are some other forms I think, but like I said, that's the primary
02:09Caspy7a large number of people on the web are not technical and don't change the default search engine
02:10Caspy7so there's certainly value in that strategyg
02:10Caspy7*strategy
02:11Caspy7Burds: previously Mozilla had a contract with Google for something like $300million a year (or was it $333million...)
02:11Caspy7I forget the numbers for Yahoo, but it's likely similar
02:11Mardeganyone looking for a tax deduction through donations can also contribute financially to the Mozilla Foundation. It is a charity
02:12Caspy7...dunno if being a non-profit makes it technically a charity
02:12hashharRegarding donations, please check with your employer if they'll match your donations. quite a lot and it is great.
02:13hashhar*quite a lot do
02:14Tiger_Stripeshate to say but i am useing edge more and more on windows 10 too
02:15hashhari switched to edge but started missing extensions and my 100+ tabs. also, abysmal bookmark management on edge.
02:15MardegCaspy7: not sure semantics matter, they can be looked up at https://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=search.summary&orgid=16300
02:15firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - http://planet.mozilla.org/ :
02:15hashharit's definetely fast and light though
02:15firebot Cameron Kaiser: 45.8.1 not available (also: 45.9 and FPR1 progress, and goodbye, App.net)
02:15firebot http://tenfourfox.blogspot.com/2017/03/4581-not-available-also-459-and-fpr1.html
02:17Tiger_Stripesedge has ublock
02:17Burdsthat seems like a lot of money for something so simple
02:17Tiger_Stripesansl with the creaters update i like what they are doing
02:17hashhari like the general direction but they have a lot of ground to cover.
02:17Tiger_Stripesalso i am practly being paid to use it now.
02:17hashhargives me all the more reason to contribute to firefox
02:18Tiger_Stripesget points for useing it and doing stuff. use those points to get amazon gife cards
02:19Tiger_Stripescan't wait to be avle to go back and forth betwen windows phone and computer too.
02:19Caspy7https://www.ghacks.net/2017/03/17/pwn2own-2017-windows-ubuntu-edge-safari-firefox-exploited/
02:19Tiger_Stripesi like how the save for later thing works. that is a useful feature to me https://youtu.be/XCj-wJB5j4c?t=6m8s
02:20hashhari like that too.
02:20hashharI wonder why we can't use the exising sync feature for something similar though.
02:21hashharnot talking about the Pocket extension though (the bundled one with FF)
02:21Caspy7"The one attack attempt against Chrome failed, and a second attack against Firefox failed as well. Both Edge and Safari were exploited multiple times."
02:22hashharFrom a security perspective any OSS browser is a LOT better than closed ones.
02:23Tiger_StripesCaspy7 what about on windows phone?
02:23Caspy7Tiger_Stripes: what about windows phone?
02:23Tiger_Stripesthey can't get stuff like android
02:23Caspy7what is your question?
02:24Caspy7"what about?" is not an implied question out of the blue
02:24Tiger_Stripeshttps://www.reddit.com/r/windowsphone/comments/3ew7ms/is_it_true_there_are_no_viruses_or_malware_for_wp/
02:24Caspy7oh, I'll just paste links as a question...
02:24Tiger_Stripeswell edge is on windows phone too so did this explint work on there too or are they only looking at windows 10 computers?
02:25hashhari think it depends on if they are able to break out of the sandbox.
02:25Caspy7you can go research yourself, but I expect windows phone was not tested for pwn2own
02:25Tiger_Stripesexploit*
02:25hashharthere's been just a single (?) known exploit for windows phone but it needs physical access.
02:26Tiger_Stripesyeah
02:26hashharnot many people target it though.
02:26Tiger_Stripeseven ios has malware/exploits now
02:26Caspy7Tiger_Stripes: there was no mention of other phones, so, no, it wasn't tested
02:26Tiger_Stripesbut don't seem to be any for windows phone so windows phone is the most secure :P
02:27Caspy7fine logic
02:28Tiger_Stripesedge version on phone is microsoft edge 38.14393.953.0 btw edgehtml 14.14393
02:28Tiger_Stripessame version as windows 10 computers
02:29Tiger_Stripesso it is upto date no matter wnat dumb webistes say. still find it funny that kroger website say i am useing a outdated browser on phone and have to change from mobile to desktop version to make the site work
02:29Mardeghttps://www.mozilla.org/en-US/security/advisories/mfsa2017-08/ I wonder if Rust prevents integer overflows?
02:29Caspy7yeah, pretty sure it would have avoided this
02:30Mardegso many sandbox escapes mentioned in that P2O video, makes me wonder if companies will rewrite their sandboxes in Rust
02:31Caspy7no idea if that would prevent the escapes. Fine question.
02:35Tiger_Stripesif someone at pwn thing wants to make people notice then they will try and do something with windows phone since that seems to be secure and no one really has yet
02:35Caspy7Tiger_Stripes: you should write them a note
02:36Tiger_Stripesno
02:37Tiger_Stripesi would like to see if they could do something but i don't want it to be a start of stuff showing up on windows phones too
02:37Caspy7additionally, you may find other people who enjoy talking all things Edge in ##windows on chat.freenode.net
02:43Caspy7Mardeg: interesting, that page says "This function runs in the content sandbox, requiring a second vulnerability to compromise a user's computer."
02:44Caspy7so presumably anyone with e10s would not be at risk
02:44Mardegindeed
02:50Caspy7Mardeg: talked w/ some Rust folk and the answer is yes, Rust would have prevented this
02:50Mardegsweet
02:50HavvyNot quite.
02:51HavvyInteger overflows are panic!()s in debug, but silent in release mode.
02:51* Caspy7 sighs
02:51Mardegokay then, savoury
02:53Caspy7I ended up with multiple answers but settled on manishearth in #servo who I defer to greatly, though he did go on some with stuff I don't fully grasp
02:54HavvyCan I see a log of that convo?
02:54Caspy7"integer overflow in Rust cannot cause security issues" "short of very construed cases (namely, mem::forgetting a lot of refcounted objects on 32 bit)"
02:54Caspy7Havvy: http://logs.glob.uno/?c=mozilla%23servo
02:54Caspy7goes on about being able to cause correctness issues
02:55Caspy7like I said, over my head
02:55Shed-34046Hi
02:55Caspy7o/
02:55Shed-34046firefox isn't loading and lagging alot on alot of website with flash player
02:55SoItBeginsCaspy7:
02:55Caspy7SoItBegins:
02:55Shed-34046I'm trying to use xat and alot of text isn't showing and trying to play miniclip 8 ball pool and it lags so bad
02:55Shed-34046any ideas?
02:56Shed-34046like any solutions
02:56HavvyCaspy7: Basically that integer overflows cause correctness issues, which in a language like C can mean security issues - but it's hard to turn such into a security issue in Rust.
02:56Caspy7Havvy: so we'll stick with the answer my mind can grasp of "yes" ;)
02:56SoItBeginsCaspy7: So remember how I was having that problem with the HTML5 video player eventually stopping and refusing to work until Firefox was restarted, and you told me I should try turning off software accel and restart the browser and see if that fixed it?
02:56SoItBeginsWell it didnt work. The problem continues to occur with HWAccel turned off.
02:57Caspy7Shed-34046: try starting in safe mode https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/troubleshoot-firefox-issues-using-safe-mode
02:57Shed-34046Will flash player load in safe mode?
02:57Caspy7Havvy: but yes, I understand parts
02:57Caspy7Shed-34046: yes, I believe so
02:57Caspy7but it's for testing/troubleshooting
02:57Caspy7not meant for long term
02:58Caspy7SoItBegins: well, sounds like you eliminated that factor :)
02:58SoItBeginsTrue! What would you suggest as the next step?
02:59Caspy7SoItBegins: um, gotta try and refresh my memory here... What OS? You've tried with addons disabled? (Do you have any video related by chance?) How long does it take to trigger? Have you looked at your memory? Does it continue grow?
03:00Shed-34046STill got the lag and glitch in flash plugin in firefox..
03:00Shed-34046Could my CPU be the blame?
03:00Shed-34046Its a Pentium b960..
03:00Shed-34046with 2nd gen intel hd graphics
03:01SoItBeginsCaspy7: Mac OS 10.9. Havent tried it with Addons disabled, but it fails on two separate profiles, and the only addons those profiles share are Ghostery, NoScript, Keychain Services Integration, and Cookie Monster.
03:01SoItBeginsDont know what your third question means. Several hours to a day. I assume you mean Firefoxs memory usage?
03:02Caspy7Shed-34046: you're main issue is with Flash then? Sorry if I missed that from your initial comment
03:02Shed-34046Caspy7 correct
03:03Shed-34046In Chrome flash is fine on the websites but I prefer firefox..
03:03Caspy7Shed-34046: here are several steps you can try https://pastebin.mozilla.org/8982421
03:04Caspy7Chrome ships with its own custom version of Flash
03:04Shed-34046Caspy7 it wouldn't be because of my CPU would it?
03:04Shed-34046This laptop is about roughly 5 and a half years old..
03:04Caspy7I wouldn't expect that
03:05Caspy7SoItBegins: you said "the only addons" they share and then you listed four separate addons. That doesn't quite exempt them of course.
03:05Caspy7SoItBegins: I forget, are you using Sync?
03:05Caspy7Havvy: read the log? Thoughts?
03:05SoItBeginsCaspy7: True, but it narrows the field a bit.
03:05SoItBeginsAnd no, I do not use Sync.
03:06Caspy7these are not identical machines, correct?
03:07HavvyCaspy7: He said the exploit didn't come from integer overflow alone, but rather in combination with something else. That something else is what Rust is good at preventing.
03:07Caspy7Havvy: sorry, you kind of already gave an answer
03:08Caspy7SoItBegins: what I'm looking for is common aspects between the two Firefoxes. So, hardware, addons, settings, etc
03:09SoItBeginsCaspy7: The two Firefoxes are both running on my laptop at the same time, through use of about:profiles.
03:09SoItBeginsSo, the common aspects are the entire physical machine, also the four addons I mentioned.
03:09Caspy7ah
03:09SoItBeginsAnd they use the same password store, thanks to Keychain Services Integration.
03:10Shed-34046Flash player is still glitchy but not lagging any more Caspy7
03:10SoItBeginsThats about all I can think of.
03:10Caspy7Shed-34046: what all did you do?
03:10Shed-34046disabled hardware accerlation and protection mode.
03:11Caspy7ah...the quick ones
03:11Caspy7you may just try the whole shebang
03:11Caspy7also if you're on 64 bit version of windows, you can get the 64 bit version of Firefox
03:11Caspy7which will remove protected mode from the equation
03:11Caspy7while still giving you a sandbox
03:12Caspy7I've seen a lot of issues fixed with the full uninstaller (not a promise mind you)
03:21Caspy7SoItBegins: kinda tired at the moment, so all possibilities may not be fresh to me, but the common addons are one of them
03:33SoItBeginsCaspy7: OK. Ill try with out NoScript on one of the instances for a while and see if the problem recurs. Same for Ghostery. Then Ill come back.
03:34Caspy7SoItBegins: sorry I don't have more definitive answers, but that's a fine plan
03:34SoItBeginsCaspy7: Nah, sfine. These things take time. Get some sleep.
03:37azizLIGHTwhen will container tabs hit firefox?
03:37SoItBeginsazizLIGHT: Theyre in Aurora already. You do have to turn a hidden preference on to access them.
03:37SoItBeginsOr, you can turn them on with the extension Classic Theme Restorer.
03:38azizLIGHTwhats the page that shows me what is stable, beta, dev/aurora, nightly version at this time
03:39azizLIGHTas in what is the versions
03:39SoItBeginshttps://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/channel/desktop/
03:39SoItBeginsAurora is the one referred to as Developer Edition'/
03:39kkusi'm on windows 10 now. in my previous life, I used to be able to select no to the UAC prompt and then firefox developer edition used to install to appdata without admin privileges iirc. Is that removed?
03:39Caspy7azizLIGHT: they can be enabled on Release with a pref or enabled with the Test pilot. But Right now, I don't think anyone knows the exact answer of when
03:41azizLIGHTSoItBegins: so when you say there in aurora, do you mean fierfox 54 or firefox 53
03:41Caspy7azizLIGHT: say...your name isn't from Stargate is it?
03:41azizLIGHTits from fifth element
03:41SoItBegins54. But I think they were also in 53 which is now Beta, I guess.
03:41Caspy7dangit! that's what I meant
03:41Caspy7got them mixed up
03:41azizLIGHT:P
03:41Caspy7seriously, I have the scene vivid in my memory
03:42azizLIGHTim overdue for a rewatch hehehe
03:42Caspy7excellent movie
03:42Caspy7stands the test of time
03:43azizLIGHTfor sure
03:43azizLIGHTCaspy7: what did you mean when you said enabled with the Test pilot?
03:44azizLIGHTSoItBegins: where is the option inside Classic Theme Restorer?
03:44SoItBeginsAdvanced section.
03:44azizLIGHTCaspy7: what might be the prefs in about:config?
03:44Caspy7azizLIGHT: https://testpilot.firefox.com/experiments/containers
03:45Caspy7that turns it on
03:45Caspy7on all releases
03:47Caspy7azizLIGHT: privacy.userContext.enabled = true
03:47Caspy7privacy.userContext.ui.enabled = true
03:47Caspy7privacy.userContext.longPressBehavior = 2
03:47Caspy7and restart...maybe, not sure
03:47Caspy7but the test pilot is better for now
03:48Caspy7helps Mozilla to get it landed
03:48azizLIGHThows that?
03:48azizLIGHTmore users means landing chance?
03:49azizLIGHTholy crap test pilot was so simple
03:49azizLIGHTi thought itd be a new installation of firefox
03:49Caspy7yes, that too
03:49Caspy7they're pulling telemetry from it and gathering input/feedbad
03:50Caspy7*feedback
03:50Caspy7seeing how people use it
03:50Caspy7to better make decisions on how to design the UX
03:53azizLIGHThow did i not know about test pilot
03:53azizLIGHTtest pilots amazing
03:53momoeLooks like the latest firefox will break the All-in-one gestures addon. :(
03:53momoeI figured it'd be one day. That thing hasn't been updated in years
08:00van14hi'
08:10DH76Was there a change recently that made it use non-ISO date and time? Up until a few weeks ago, I had 24-hour time format and ISO dates, but now I'm plagued with 12-hour time and unwanted date format. Any idea what has happened?
08:10DH76On the history page, that is.
09:35Tew(he left, but 12-hour time format sounds horrible..)
10:40wrytHave you found a way out?
10:46wrytit is not a difficult question
10:47wrytI am not pleased with your hiding.
10:47wrytdandon: leave
10:47wrytI do not want you.
10:48wrytdandon: LEAVE
10:50wrytdandon: LEAVE follow Me-me
10:50wrytMardeg: remove dandon
10:52wryta
10:52wrytb
10:52wrytc
10:52wrytd
10:52Tew:)
10:52Mardegwell that sorted itself out :)
11:11melopHello, I've an idea of a possibly useful firefox feature. Because I probably don't have the means to achieve it, where can I submit it?
11:14Mardegmelop: someone may already have done that. Describe it here and we'll check
11:19melopIt's based on a personnal consideration, but i think it can be interesting. Firefox allows users to browse on the web. Because users may not have always internet connection, and users may not have a enoughly good memorys to remember all interestings things that they see on webpage; they save page. Firefox can already do that. But when you've a lot
11:19melopof saved web pages, with title of the page as the filename (and so many of blank space and possibly strange chars), it's really a mess. So, my idea is to add to firefox an "offline search engine", which will manage saved web pages
11:31Mardegmelop: it doesn't look like anyone has suggested this based on my search of bugzilla https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?bug_severity=enhancement&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&longdesc_type=anywordssubstr&short_desc=save%20page&query_format=advanced&longdesc=offline%20search
11:32spongeHello
11:32Mardegmelop: if you're registered on bugzilla you can file your suggestion there on the product: Firefox, and remember to set the "severity" field to enhancement
11:35spongeI'm using firefox on linux. For some reason when I click on files to open (for example a .torrent file) I get a dialog box asking if I want to save or open this file. Even if I choose to open and mark the "Do this automatically for files like this from now on.". I still get this dialog box the next time. How can I fix this?
11:36Mardegsponge: it's a known bug, and has yet to be fixed
11:37Mardegbug 453455
11:37firebothttps://bugzil.la/453455 REOPENED, nobody@mozilla.org Make "do this automatically for files like this from now on" work even with "content-disposition: at
11:38melopMardeg: Thanks for mentionning bugzilla, I wasn't aware of it. But redoing searches lead me to "Pocket", a firefox tool which seems to be near from what I want. I will explore it before committing.
11:39Mardegsponge: the HTTP header sent by the webserver of those torrent files is "content-disposition: attachment" which was never meant for webpages, it was for email attachments, and the standard says to prompt everytime, so that overrides the checkbox in the dialog
11:39Mardegso that bug filed is to ignore the standard
11:40spongeWasn't it working correctly in some earlier versions of FF?
11:40Mardegno
11:41spongeOh, I see
11:42spongeSo is it a bug that is waiting to be fixed or it's not going to be fixed unless websites write their code differently?
11:42Mardegbug 285976 was filed earlier to not change the behaviour except to disable the checkbox and explain why
11:42firebothttps://bugzil.la/285976 ASSIGNED, nobody@mozilla.org consider making use of aReason argument of nsIHelperAppLauncherDialog::show
11:43spongeIs there an addon that can fix this?
11:43Mardegback in 2005
11:43spongeOh
11:44spongeI see that you linked to some addon
11:44Mardegthere's a current one at https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/inlinedisposition-webexts/
11:45spongeOh even better
11:45Mardegbut not sure it'll do the behaviour you want. a content-disposition: inline will try opening the file inside the browser
11:45Mardegnot useful for a torrent file
11:46spongeAnd what about the old addon: https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/inlinedisposition/ ?
11:46Mardegsame thing, it'll just stop working in Firefox 57 or later
11:47spongethere's a long time until FF57 arrives :)
11:48Mardega little over 6 months
11:49spongeOh, I thought the releases are every 4 months
11:49Mardegevery 6 weeks
11:51spongeIs there a simple way to make .zip files recognizable? So that it'll offer to open them?
11:53Mardegit's not file extensions the browsers are meant to look for, it's the content-type HTTP header sent by each server
11:53Mardegso no simple way
11:55spongeHow come FF can recognize .pdf .doc files but not .zip files?
11:55spongecan't I add "actions" to the Application tab in preferences?
11:55Mardegsometimes Fx can't recognise .pdf files if a server is badly configured
11:56Mardegsponge: those actions are based on the content-type also
11:57spongeAnd is there a way to add more to the short list of recognizable content-types?
11:59Mardegif a new content-type is encountered not already listed Firefox will ask what to do with it (and without content-disposition: attachment that checkbox to "always do this" is how that is added)
12:01spongeok, got it
12:01spongeI'm also wondering, in chromium for example when clicking on a torrent file it's being saved automatically, and one can choose to "open those files automatically" after they are saved. Is there a way of doing this in FF as well?
12:04MardegI only see options added to the dropdown next to each content-type in the Applications for limited types
12:06Mardegfor torrent files it has an option to "Use transmission-gtk"
12:56zucchiniwww.dilkiiduniyaa1.blogspot.com
12:57zucchiniwww.dilkiduniyaa1.blogspot.com
14:44spongethanks for the help Mardeg. Bye bye
14:59merpnderpyikes, updated FF dev build and now autocomplete on urls no longer works.
15:33medflyyo, how am I supposed to match a phone running firefox with a media query? @media only screen and (max-device-width: 400px) works for my ancient AOSP thing but not for oldish firefox (no updates)
15:34medflyit's firefox 49 because that's what f-droid has
15:41Mardegthese days why the need to pick out one browser on modern phones instead of just @media screen and (orientation:portrait)
15:42medflydoes that actually select all of them?
15:42* medfly tests
15:42medflyDunno, I haven't mobile'd in a while
15:42medflyit sounded too good to be true
15:42Mardegunless you rotate the phone into landscape mode of course
15:45medflythanks!
15:46medfly(hmm, the debugger fake-mobile doesn't claim it)
15:46MardegI know Firefox does, but https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/@media/orientation#Browser_compatibility is full of ?s
15:48Mardegeasiest way to test on the desktop is to just resize the browser window to be narrower than it is tall
15:48medflyoh that works
15:49medflyI guess it wasn't very portraity, because the length is pretty small with developer tools open
15:49medflycool.
16:22merpnderpDoes firefox have a built in password generator like Chrome?
16:28WaltS48No, and we don't want no Chrome clone. ;)
16:29WaltS48Seriously, Chrome has a password generator?
16:30WaltS48The Secure Login extension for Firefox has a random password generator
16:31WaltS48https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/secure-login-webextension/
16:36medflymany thanks Mardeg!
16:37MardegI've no idea why I'm awake at 3am but glad to help :)
18:46CypherousWhats this widevine stuff i see in my plugins list
18:48Caspy7Cypherous: widevine is a plugin that enables DRM for media playback. It's most prolific use is for Netflix
18:48Caspy7though I Amazon and others use it as well
18:48CypherousOk so safe to disable then
18:48CypherousAlthough for some reason ALL video playback on my PC is just screwed >.>
18:54Caspy7Cypherous: yes, it is safe to disable. Assuming you don't need it for video playback on Netflix/Amazon or others, then you shouldn't notice a difference
18:54CypherousYeah i think something in windows imploded, i did a soft restart and even the part where i select my OS had graphical issues
18:57Caspy7:-/
20:02Timvdehttps://discourse.mozilla-community.org/t/massive-review-spam-from-anonymous-users/14499
20:02TimvdeHow on earth did they think that was a good idea?
20:42rctgamer3Timvde: i have no idea
20:42rctgamer3but we can't remove them, policy since thursday
20:47Tew*proceeds to remove them* ? :))
21:53TaokiHello. I have a problem enabling multiprocess for Firefox 51 on Linux (openSUSE Tumbleweed).
21:54Taokiabout:support tells me: 0/1 (Disabled by add-ons) However I did not install any addon to disable this, granted such a thing would even exist when I can easily just disable the preference!
21:54TaokiCan anyone explain what is wrong please?
21:54TaokiI only have 5 simple addons enabled
21:58TimvdeTaoki: What add-ons do you have?
21:58TimvdeTaoki: Also, Fx 52 got released, you should probably upgrade :)
21:58TaokiTimvde: Any easy way to generate a list, or should I upload a screenshot
21:58TaokiGood to know. I only use the version installed by my distro though
21:58TimvdeTaoki: you can copy it from about:support
21:59TimvdeTaoki: distros probably have an upgrade available already :)
21:59TaokiI'm not seeing it in about:support, 1 sec
21:59TaokiI mean there is a table, I guess I'll copy that
21:59TaokiOnly a handful of them are enabled anyway
22:00TimvdeTaoki: Yes, the "Extensions" table
22:00TimvdeTaoki: Please upload it on a pastebin, and don't paste it here
22:00TaokiTimvde: http://pastebin.com/raw/XBd2puRu
22:00TaokiSure... I know not to do that hehe :P
22:01TaokiAhhh... I think I need to disable extensions.e10sBlockedByAddons
22:01TaokiWhatever that's for
22:03TimvdeTaoki: I think it's just set so Firefox doesn't recalculate all the time...
22:03Taokiah
22:03TaokiHow would I fix?
22:04TimvdeTaoki: Well, one of your add-ons does not report itself as being e10s compatible
22:04TimvdeI don't know all your add-ons, so I'm trying to find out one by one
22:05TimvdeTaoki: You can also just force-enable e10s by setting (iirc) browser.tabs.remote.force-enable to true
22:05Timvde(in about:config)
22:05TaokiWhy do addons have to report such a thing? And trying that now, thanks :)
22:05TimvdeBut that might break an add-on or cause slowdown for add-ons that aren't compatible yet
22:05TaokiAhh yes, seems to work after that!
22:05TimvdeTaoki: e10s broke *a lot* of add-ons initially
22:06TimvdeIt's a really fundamental change to Firefox's architecture
22:06TimvdeSo add-ons needed code updates to get compatible again
22:06TaokiInteresting
22:07TaokiAll of my addons seem to work
22:07TaokiIt now says: 1/1 (Enabled by user) However I have multiple tabs open... when does it decide to enable multiprocess for each?
22:09Caspy7Taoki: I haven't been reading very closely apparently...but e10s is either enabled or disabled. It requires a browser restart for this to toggle
22:11TaokiCaspy7: I restarted the browser, and about:support says it's now enabled. However, even with multiple tabs open, I have only one firefox process and it says 1/1
22:11TaokiAs in, there's one "firefox" and one "Web" process
22:12Mardegthat's working as intended
22:13Mardegone for the user interface, one or more for content (more in later versions)
22:13Taokiok. Had the impression you'd have one for each tab, some screenshots suggested that :)
22:15Caspy7Taoki: 1/1 indicates 1 out of 1 open windows are multiprocess
22:15TaokiCaspy7: Makes sense. But is it always 1/1? What's the criteria based on which it uses multiple ones?
22:16Caspy7also, Firefox will never be one process per tab (chrome isn't even technically that)
22:16Caspy7next I believe they plan to bump up to 4
22:16Mardegusers can set the number of content processes at about:config?filter=dom.ipc.processCount
22:16TaokiNice
22:17Mardegthat's the pref which will have the default value changed in future
22:17Caspy7Firefox has done fair in the past with tabs and 1 process, so at the very least, increasing to 20 processes for 20 tabs is not necessary
22:17Caspy7it's not advisable to push that number too high
22:17TaokiDoes next version mean 52? I have 51 and it's indeed 1 here.
22:17Mardegthe current version is 52
22:18Taokiok... 53 then
22:18Mardegif you're behind it may be because the distro of linux in use is behind
22:18Caspy7Taoki: what is your question about 53? I don't understand what you want to know
22:18TaokiCaspy7: Whether dom.ipc.processCount will be bigger than 1 by default. Of course I can set it now to test
22:19Caspy7it's either going to be 54 or 55, I forget
22:19Caspy7you can bump it yourself, understanding that it *could* cause issues
22:19Caspy7I think many people have done ok with it
22:19Caspy7at one point I had it bumped and ended up with problems and turned it off
22:19Caspy7so I guess I'm not many
22:20TimvdeI've been running on 2 for ages
22:21TimvdeI've had 4 for a while, but at least back then, it used too much memory :(
22:21TaokiI have 8 CPU threads, so 8 seems feasible and working well at a first glance
22:21Caspy7I think that's improved
22:21TimvdeTaoki: in the long run, Mozilla wants to do something smart with it (bug 1066789)
22:21firebothttps://bugzil.la/1066789 NEW, nobody@mozilla.org Implement a heuristic to replace dom.ipc.processCount
22:21Caspy7Taoki: that setting also takes a restart to take effect
22:21TaokiYeah, automatic would be better
22:22TaokiAnd I restarted. Still says 1/1 in about:support, but there are now multiple Web processes so it works.
22:22TimvdeTaoki: As Caspy7 stated: the 1/1 is the number of browser windows
22:22Caspy7as I said "1" is Windows
22:22TaokiOooh, sorry
22:22TaokiYes it's good then
22:22MardegTaoki: you can test by opening another window to see if the value changes
22:23TimvdeYou can still start a window that renders its tabs in the chrome process (at least in Nightly, I'm not sure whether that's exposed on release)
22:23TaokiIndeed it is
22:23TimvdeTaoki: Note that this doesn't create extra content processes
22:23TimvdeThe number you set for dom.ipc.processCount is global
22:23TaokiMakes sense
22:24MardegI'm not sure they've gotten to the point where processes are spread evenly among cores yet
22:24TimvdeTaoki: But Mozilla is still in the stages of making any number of processes smooth and stable, only then they're going to make it dynamic
22:24TimvdeMardeg: Doesn't the OS do that?
22:24Caspy7Mardeg: only in a dumb way
22:24Caspy7oh, cores?
22:24TaokiCool... so each process also uses memory only for what's in the web page(s) it represents. I like how it's designed.
22:25TaokiI wonder what the interface says if I kill a Web process :)
22:25Caspy7yeah, unsure if Mozilla has control there...
22:25Mardeg"Ouch! Please don't do that"
22:25TaokiIt says the tab has crashed :P
22:25TimvdeTaoki: It says "This tab has crashed :(" or something
22:25Caspy7Taoki: you're welcome to try
22:25Caspy7yeah, along with all the other ones
22:26TaokiThis is very useful in the highly bizarre case where someone has such little memory, the web browser can fill it all up. The OOM killer can just kill a tab, and you don't even lose your web browser :)
22:26TimvdeTaoki: Note that in the current design, all tabs are killed at once
22:27TaokiMy mother, till I find her 2 x 2GB of DDR2 RAM, might very well be that case. Facebook barely works for her, only works at all since she has some SWAP space.
22:27TaokiOh
22:27Caspy7also, the more processes you use, the greater memory usage as compare to before because of overhead
22:27TaokiI see
22:27TaokiI have 24GB here now, so not a problem for me. Doesn't help much with that other case though
22:27Caspy7which is partly why you don't want 100 processes if you're on limited memory
22:28TaokiI only set 8 since that's how many threads I have
22:28TimvdeTaoki: There are add-ons which can unload tabs after some time of not using them
22:29TaokiOnly annoyance I'm seeing so far is that when I open a new tab, the interface freezes for about 2 seconds.
22:29hashharLazy loading on startup helps a lot too if you have set your browser to restore tabs on startup.
22:30TaokiOMG though... Facebook is unrecognizably fast now :O
22:30Caspy7Taoki: sorry, I wasn't paying close attention, did you force multiprocess?
22:30TaokiYeah but it only loads tabs I click on
22:31TaokiCaspy7: Yes. All works fine so far
22:31TimvdeTaoki: Ah, yes, I saw that issue somewhere... Firefox needs to create a new process when your number of tabs is less than the maximum amount of processes you have set.
22:31Caspy7Taoki: incompatible addons will cause pauses in e10s/multiprocess
22:31Taokioh
22:31TaokiAddons seem to work fine
22:31Caspy7yes, they may very well work fine
22:31TimvdeI believe I've seen a bug which got fixed, but it might not be in Fx 52
22:32Caspy7just letting you know that incompatible addons cause sometimes cause pauses or worse performance in multiprocess
22:32TimvdeIt's for a reason that multiple content processes aren't enabled by default yet :)
22:32Caspy7well, they're on 60% of users by default.
22:32TaokiFair enough. Hope they will be... they've been in development for quite a bit
22:32hashharUbuntu ships with a default addon called Ubuntu Modifications which 'used to' (?) cause issues with multiprocess. Not sure now.
22:33Caspy7I think they're now default for release users who don't have any gotchas
22:33TaokiI also heard that FF is one day getting some brand new HTML renderer, that's dozens of times faster or something. I want that ^^
22:33Caspy7eh...
22:33Caspy7that's a longer story
22:33hashharAh! Project Quantum.
22:33TaokiYes, I think it was called that :)
22:34Caspy7Taoki: in the short term, Mozilla is incorporating *parts* of Servo into Firefox
22:34hashharIt's actually a long term project and you won't see a sudden big change. Incremental changes keep happenning.
22:34TimvdeTaoki: I can't find the bug, sorry :(
22:34TaokiI assume it's nothing I can enable yet, though
22:34TimvdeBut it should be fixed in some future version
22:34Caspy7Servo is no where near ready as a full blown rendering engine
22:34TimvdeTaoki: Not yet, it's far from ready
22:34Caspy7that will be years
22:35TimvdeYea, if we have Stylo by the end of this year, I'll be very pleased with Mozilla
22:35Caspy7Taoki: you assume correctly. They're working on the integration parts on prereleases
22:35hashharThe biggest benefit I see from servo is that the entire browser UI can be HTML.
22:35hashharTimvde: What's stylo?
22:35Caspy7Timvde: I get the feeling they're aiming for stylo and webrender
22:35Taokicool
22:35Caspy7Quantum Style
22:36Timvdehashhar: CSS engine
22:36Caspy7https://wiki.mozilla.org/Quantum
22:36TaokiThe GTK based UI is fine. Though I so wish there was a QT5 version of Firefox!!!
22:36hashharOh. Thanks. Don't know how I missed it though.
22:36TimvdeCaspy7: WebRender would be *very* ambitious
22:36TaokiI use KDE so that would be nice
22:36TimvdeCaspy7: Oh, by the way, I mean having them on release
22:37TimvdeNot riddled with bugs on Nightly, not riding the trains :)
22:37TimvdeTaoki: Luckily, KDE has great GTK theming :)
22:37TaokiIndeed
22:37TimvdeSource: I'm on KDE too ^^
22:37TaokiYay
22:37MardegI always thought you were on VDE, Tim
22:38TaokiWish KWin supporter tabs in the titlebar, like Firefox for Windows has...
22:40TimvdeMardeg: VDE?
22:40TimvdeOh
22:40Timvdederp
22:40Mardeglol
22:40TimvdeThat's a pretty lame joke
22:41TimvdeTaoki: Oh, nooo! Keep that crap out of my title bar :(
22:41TaokiWell, optionally :P
22:42TimvdeLet's just keep Firefox consistent with all my other programs, okay?
22:42TimvdeBrowsers are feeling way too special nowadays
22:42Timvde(Chrome is even worse)
22:43TaokiHeh. Only tried Chrome briefly... it's great but I still prefer FF
22:44hashharChrome is fast in rendering but cannot handle a large number of tabs and the tab and bookmark management is abysmal.
22:44Timvdehashhar: Firefox is also fast in rendering, and about every UI part of Chrome is abysmal
22:44TaokiGood to know. I think it seemed nice at first since it appeared to use less memory.
22:44hashharFirefox will hopefully be getting a "search" field in settings. There is some work being done to redesign the preferences page.
22:45Timvdehashhar: Yes, it is planned
22:45TaokiSearch is only annoying because it's per-tab. You have to open it again for each field
22:45hashharTimvde: I wanted to work on it but some college students are working on it with Mike Conley.
22:46TimvdeAh, cool :)
22:48TimvdeI remember a video showing the preference search, but I can't find it anymore. Anyway, if you're interested, follow bug 1335905
22:48firebothttps://bugzil.la/1335905 ASSIGNED, manotejmeka@gmail.com Add experimental search capability to about:preferences
22:48Caspy7oh yeah, they've got lots of screenshots and stuff I've seen on bugzilla
19 Mar 2017
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