mozilla :: #firefox

13 Jul 2017
01:36solenodicI don't want to flame or anything but is anyone else concerned about this
01:36solenodicI installed firefox and was never told about this
01:36solenodicfor a browser that promotes privacy, users should be told about this the instant they install the browser, but I just learned about it and blocked it today
01:39solenodicit should at least be a different analytics company... anything but google
01:40azakireally? *anything*? you can't think of anyone worse than google?
01:40azakifacebook? apple?
01:42Daggersolenodic: without commenting on Mozilla's behavior here, I suggest you block completely from your entire network
01:42solenodicmy point is, I'm sure you could find an analytics company that does less data mining on their side than google
01:42Daggerremember that non-browser programs use GA too (including, amazingly, some Minecraft mods)
01:42solenodicI'm glad mozilla negotiated with google not to share any of the data but my trust of google has been murdered
01:42azakigoogle has given hundreds of millions of dollars to open source projects; apple tried to destroy linux with patent lawsuits, and facebook sells info to third-parties, whereas as i recall google only uses their data for their own ad-targetting, they don't share with third parties.
01:42MossopSadly Google have the best analytics tools around. And we have a special agreement that Google can't use any data from Mozilla sites for data mining or for sharing with third parties
01:43Daggeron my network, thanks to a response policy in bind: Host not found: 3(NXDOMAIN)
01:43solenodicI avoid a lot of software for just that reason
01:43azakigoogle was also instrumental in the original fight for net neutrality.
01:44azakii wouldn't say i particularly "trust" them, i wouldn't trust any business that is for-profit, but their actions have shown me they are the lesser of all evils in the markets they compete in.
01:45solenodicI'm sure they only care about net neutrality when ISPs aren't presenting them with a profitable deal in case neutrality laws are stripped away
01:46Daggerof all companies, I'd actually expect Google to go for long-term profit over short-term
01:46Dagger...still not gonna unblock GA though
01:46Mardegone of the EME standard authors is from Google
01:48azakisolenodic: uh.. the whole point of not having net neutrality, is that google and others would have to pay ISPs money, a tax so to speak, to get good performance on their networks
01:48azakiif the ISPs paid google, that would defeat the point, and they could never afford the loss of profit google would endure as a result of no more net neutrality
01:49azakiMardeg: yeah, and if google hadnt done it, then their competitors would've. i notice apple is absent, probably because they make more from itunes which has it's own DRM and really don't want web video to succeed.
01:50solenodicI don't think it's impossible for a net neutrality killing deal to be mutually profitable
01:50azakii hate EME, but like, right now we have two choices, "shitty DRM" or "ever-so-slightly-less-shitty DRM", at least for services like netflix, etc.. which is important to Real Users(TM)
01:51solenodicif ISPs put in place slow lanes for all the other websites, more resources will be freed to make google's streaming services buffer significantly less
01:51azakisolenodic: all i could imagine is cellular carriers blackmailing google by saying they will promote apple devices more, if google tries to support net neutrality again.
01:52azakibut i don't know if carriers have that much negotiating power anymore.
01:52azakiandroid is at like 87% marketshare globally now
01:52azakiit's gonna hit 90 in the next few years.
01:53azakieven then, it wouldn't speak to their real intentions, but rather it'd be a blackmail tactic.
03:30Me-metwitch is crashing my browser
03:36Me-meto clarify, my browser is firefox :v
03:37arailiterally crashing?
03:37araican you get crash report?
03:37Me-methe pages all crash, and the thing with the "send a crash report" comes up, so I'm going to go with 90% sure it's literally crashing
03:37Me-meI sent one after I reproduced it three timese
03:38Me-meto make sure it was twitch
03:40Me-mebad time for a typo
03:48araido you have crash report ID ?
03:48Me-meno, it just sent it
03:48Me-meas part of attempting to restore the tab
03:49Me-meI could crash it again and try to find it this time?
03:49araiyou can see them in about:crashes
03:49Me-meI have five
03:49Me-meyou want me to paste them here?
03:50araiif the submitted date matches
03:50Me-meyeah there are ones from days earlier
03:50Me-meah, four of them got throttled apparently
03:51Me-mehallelujah for "not a plugin hang". I hate that that's always the first step
03:52araican you try updating?
03:52Me-meI'd rather not.
03:52Me-menot meaning to be difficult
03:53Me-meI'd just rather explore other options and find out why it happened before I update to fix it.
03:54araiif you can get other reports, you could check if those are related
03:54araiand there may be some hint
03:54Me-methe other four got throttled.
04:07kode54I'd also like to ask why you're using GPU drivers from 2014
04:12kode54at least you installed the March security update
04:25Me-meI guess I miss this stream, huh
04:25Me-mekode: do GPU drivers get updated that often?
04:25kode54about every month
04:26Me-mehow do I find what GPU drivers to get
04:26Me-meI' p. sure I can update them once I've downloaded them has a form where you put in your GPU model and OS version
04:26Me-mecan it not autodetect them x_x
04:27kode54it can, but I think the autodetect either requires Flash or Java
04:27kode54or a plugin
04:27Me-meI have flash
04:27kode54you can try it
04:28Me-mejava is required
04:28kode54I already know what you have, but you can easily put it in the form
04:28kode54from the display model code on the crash report
04:28Me-mewhat form
04:28Me-meI can't find it
04:29Me-methe manual driver search?
04:29kode54manual driver search
04:29Me-meI was expecting textboxes
04:29Me-meokay, what do I put in it then?
04:29kode54put in Geforce / 700 series / 750 Ti / Windows 7 64-bit / <language> / All
04:29kode54and a list with the latest at the top should appear below
04:29kode54with updates dating up to within the last month or so
04:30Me-mewhich do I need? All?
04:30kode54All just makes it find all
04:30Me-methere are a lot of these
04:30kode54you only need one package
04:30Me-mewhich one then
04:30kode54the one at the top
04:30kode54unless you have a particular reason for using an older driver
04:30kode54not discounting that
04:31Me-meI can&#39;t imagine why I would
04:31kode54oh crap
04:32kode54stupid IRCD dropped my message guessing you had a GTX 750 Ti because the message contained mostly capital letters and was less than 5 letters long
04:32Me-meyeah no that&#39;s what I have
04:32Me-meaccording to the device manager
04:32kode54the vendor ID and product ID were reported in the crash, because they can be useful in diagnosing hardware related issues, which this isn&#39;t
04:33kode54at least, I don&#39;t think it is
04:33Me-meheck, maybe
04:33kode54there was another report of a similar crash from mid 2016
04:33Me-metwitch can do some weird graphical crap sometimes
04:33kode54it&#39;s still marked &quot;NEW&quot; and never resolved
04:33kode54presumably it may have just &quot;gone away&quot; with a firefox update
04:33kode54wish they&#39;d tracked it
04:34Me-mewell, you know what they say about cracks and falling through them
04:34Me-me3m til drivers download
04:34Me-methanks for the help btw
04:34Me-meyou&#39;ve told me more in ... 10 minutes than anyone else has about my graphics card drivers in all my years of computing
04:35kode54thanks I think
04:35kode54yeah, if you had installed that silly GeForce Experience thing, it would bug you about updates
04:36Me-meI opt out of all autoupdates with great prejudice due to paranoia. Win8/Win10 was the greatest validating experience I have ever experienced.
04:40Me-menot compatible with this version of windows
04:40Me-me._. thanks anyway
05:04Me-metest profile lets it work
09:00phlixi_ois there documentation on how the &quot;save password&quot; works in firefox?
09:00phlixi_owhen it will save passwords and when not?
09:01phlixi_oi only get search results for users who can not save their passwords what they should do / try, but i want to enable my users to save passwords on my sites
09:03Caspy7phlixi_o: not the most active time of day, but you may try #security as well
09:03phlixi_othanks Caspy7 :-)
09:04Caspy7phlixi_o: sure, on second look, there&#39;s also #passwords
10:58phlixi_oCaspy7: thanks. #security was kinda helpful, starting firefox with -console and setting sigon.debug to true helps me to &quot;work around&quot;
10:59phlixi_ojust noticed you probably saw that anyways..
10:59Caspy7when you remove http stuff that makes it not a clickable link :P
11:00Caspy7I didn&#39;t read the last bit of transcript in the channel
11:03phlixi_oi did not remove that
11:04phlixi_onot sure where it got lost
11:19Caspy7phlixi_o: thanks :)
11:34zetherooI am trying to globally install an add-on. I copied the .xpi file into /usr/lib/firefox-addons/extensions/ in Kubuntu 16.04 but when I login with another user and open Firefox that extension is not there.
11:37zetheroothere is /usr/lib/firefox and /usr/lib/firefox-addons and /usr/lib/mozilla ... I have no idea what&#39;s the difference and if any of them work
11:44arai-mobilezetheroo: this might help
13:52amosbirdhow can I sniff the POST request
14:05Corkamosbird: sniff?
14:08phlixi_oamosbird there is useful stuff in the network tab in the dev tools
14:08phlixi_oselect the request then there is the request and the answer
14:08phlixi_o...usually on the right side
14:09phlixi_osome time ago when this not included in devtools, i used this addon:
14:10phlixi_obut i dont know if it still works etc, its for mesing around with the posts (i usually only need to look at them, dev tools is enough for me in this regard)
14:10phlixi_oamosbird ^
14:11phlixi_o...and if you actually want to sniff, then you probably need some proxy, and with tls i expect this get more ugly
15:42Cheburekovichcan you help?!topic/mozilla.general/-k6XV0Oybv8
15:45Caspy7Cheburekovich: can you give more context than asking people to click on a link?
15:45Caspy7it&#39;ll help drive the masses :)
15:46CheburekovichHow to add a third-party library in Firefox. For example i have &quot;myLib.h&quot; and &quot;myLib.lib&quot; I added a line to the Navigator.h -> &quot;#include &quot;myLib.h&quot; and &quot;; -> EXPORTS.mozilla.dom += [ ...., &quot;myLib.h&quot;, ] But I do not know where to put it &quot;myLib.lib&quot; and where to register the library I have error: LINK : fatal error LNK1104: &quot;myLib.lib&quot;
15:47Caspy7Cheburekovich: I would try #introduction for build questions
17:11firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - :
17:11firebot William Lachance: Taking over an npm package: sanity prevails
17:12firebot Firefox UX: Firefox Workflow User Research in Germany
17:26firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - :
17:26firebot QMO: Firefox Developer Edition 55 Beta 11 Testday, July 21st
17:27firebot Air Mozilla: Reps Weekly Meeting Jul. 13, 2017
19:44lionrougehi !
19:44lionrougeare there any Firefox developers here?
19:45Seburolionrouge: Maybe. What&#39;s up?
19:46lionrougei&#39;m bloody angry
19:46lionrougeand this .... bad thing is also in TOR browser !
19:46lionrougegoogle analytics on addon page !
19:55DuClareLooks like the issue has received all the attention it needs
19:55DuClareOutrage on IRC won&#39;t move it forward.
20:47firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - :
20:47firebot The Mozilla Blog: Defending Net Neutrality: Millions Rally to Save the Internet, Again
20:49kus_qlguise what is going on with webp? this opens in google chrome but not in firefox
20:49azakii wonder how many of the &quot;millions&quot; rallying to save the internet rallied to actually vote in the presidential election. >_>
20:52kus_qlwho would you rather have us vote for?
20:52Caspy7kus_ql: Firefox does not currently support WebP
20:54azakikus_ql: the party that got net neutrality in the first place, and was going to keep it in place.
20:56kus_qlwe don&#39;t vote for parties, we vote for people
20:57azakibut the people do what is in their party platform, reliably and reproducibly, time and time again.
20:58Caspy7ok, getting a bit off topic...
20:58azakiwell, it&#39;s about net neutrality.
20:58kus_qlin any case, any plans to support webp?
20:59Caspy7&quot;We&#39;ve always considered shipping WebP if other browsers than Chrome were going to ship it,&quot; said Martin Best, Mozilla&#39;s director of platform product management, in a statement. If Apple ships software with WebP support, &quot;it makes it more likely that the rest of the web will support this format too, us included.&quot;
20:59kus_qloh so it is a potential security vulnerability
21:00Caspy7that&#39;s the last paragraph from the article I pasted
21:00firebotBug 856375 DUPLICATE, Implement WebP image support - take 2
21:00firebotBug 1294490 ASSIGNED, Implement experimental WebP image support
21:00azakifound these two bug reports
21:00azakiabout it
21:01Caspy7no, not a particular security vulnerability
21:01azakioh, first is a dupe of second. well, you might still be interested in the comments.
21:01azakibut yeah, second one is &quot;assigned&quot; apparently
21:01azakiam i the only one who is ocd and annoyed at the naming of &#39;webm&#39; and &#39;webp&#39; ? =p
21:03Caspy7and why are you annoyed about them?
21:03kus_qlbut now that I think about it... my logic was flawed
21:03kus_qlso basically chrome is so big and powerful that firefox has no option than to track changes in chrome
21:03kus_qlthat is bad for the interwebz
21:03kus_qlif chrome makes a breaking change in the webp spec, then firefox has to follow the change
21:04Caspy7kus_ql: I&#39;m failing to follow what issue you&#39;re pointing out. Firefox is not implementing it simply b/c Chrome did
21:04kus_qlthen why?
21:04azakiCaspy7: just inconsistency with prior format names they&#39;re usually three-letter acronyms or abbreviations for a longer name, rather than an actual word or containing full words like &quot;web&quot; in them.
21:04azakialso, it just fells odd to download a file with &quot;web&quot; in the name and have it on my desktop. since when it&#39;s on my desktop it&#39;s no longer in the web.
21:05azakilike i said, OCD.
21:05Caspy7kus_ql: if Chrome makes a &quot;breaking change&quot; then they&#39;ll break their displaying of all webps presumably
21:05kus_qli mean they will probably warn before making the change
21:05kus_qlthey have to at least warn the youtube team
21:05azakii wasn&#39;t aware youtube used webp
21:06kus_qlbecause we use firefox
21:06kus_qlif you mouse over a video in google chrome
21:06Caspy7kus_ql: you misunderstand things, but unfortunately I don&#39;t have the energy to explain them
21:06kus_qlyou will notice something like this
21:06kus_qlit is ok caspy
21:06Caspy7kus_ql: bottom line is that Google does not have some sort of driving control over WebP
21:07Caspy7unlike the Pepper API or maybe NaCL
21:07kus_qlwho does?
21:08azakionce you release a format, you can really only make non-breaking changes..
21:09azakiin *theory* maybe they could add new compression options to it, while maintaining backwards-compat, which might result in fragmentation of &quot;new webp&quot; vs &quot;old webp&quot;, but all the old images would still load perfectly fine in all browsers.
21:09kus_qlah because by definition all your old images break
21:09Caspy7kus_ql: just like VP9 and JPG the format is frozen
21:09azakimaking an actual breaking change would just.. break everything, and i don&#39;t think there is a precedent for doing such a thing..
21:10kus_qlthank you for explaining it but as far as the user is concerned, if google chrome switches to a &quot;new webp&quot; and firefox does not then for the user it looks like firefox broke webp support
21:10azaki(adding new compression modes i guess would be kind of like how there are vp8 webm and vp9 webm files)
21:11azakikus_ql: yeah but it is possible for google to face the largest backlash because if microsoft and apple don&#39;t support it either, then no web developer will use the &quot;new webp&quot; compression modes
21:11azakiin fact... mozilla ended up in that conundrum with apng
21:11azakino one else uses apng.
21:12azakiso it&#39;s basically kind of useless technology just taking up space in the code.
21:12kus_ql looks fine in Google Chrome stable
21:12MossopNo-one else supports apng except for chrome and safari
21:12azakioh really? when did they finally add support?
21:13kus_qldon&#39;t know but stable has it
21:13kus_qlat least as of 59.0.3071.86 (Official Build) (64-bit)
21:13azakiok, so my info is outdated. =p
21:13azakibut the example is still relevant historically.
21:14azakimozilla had it for years before anyone else adopted it. i had actually given up hope, hence why i never bothered to check... =p
21:14kus_qlwait, msedge has versions?
21:14kus_qlapparently they&#39;re on 16 already?
21:14DuClareWhy not?
21:14azakioh wow this is pretty recent too.. they *just* added it in 59. lol
21:15Caspy7versions certainly help to keep track of what web features are supported
21:15kus_qloh I&#39;m sorry v40 40.15063.0.0
21:15Caspy7if you&#39;re on Firefox 10, I know you can&#39;t do WebRTC for instance
21:15azakiall software has versions as far as i know. =o
21:16kus_qlif you&#39;re not on at least the latest esr, i cna&#39;t support you
21:16azakisome use dates as versions also (like they make a git snapshot and the date/time becomes the version)
22:27firebotJust appeared in Planet Mozilla - :
22:27firebot Dave Townsend: Thoughts on the module system
14 Jul 2017
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