mozilla :: #airmozilla

15 Mar 2017
16:28diane30 mins for this month's speaker!
17:01dianehere we go - pls tag me with questions for Nir https://wiki.mozilla.org/Speaker_Series#Wednesday.2C_March_15.2C_2017:_Building_Habit-Forming_Products_with_Nir_Eyal
17:03jrconlinSo, we're going to have a plug in that injects users with small doses of heroin?
17:03jrconlinAh, not that sort of habit forming.
17:04dianeno jrconlin but feel free to ask in Q&A :) addiction questions are very much fair game
17:21cmoreGot questions for Nir? Please mention diane and we'll get them asked.
17:23cmoreplease ask!
17:23cmoreeasy and hard questions
17:23jrconlin@diane: Much of this talk focuses on Skinner techniques and using things like a customer's Sunk Cost fallacy. We could play up that, but would it be really in the best interests of the customer?
17:23mvkdiane: okay, addiction question: How do you create addictive products in a way that does not create a user-vendor lock in? Does "hooking" a user necessarily imply that the connection is between the user and company through data ownership?
17:24dianethese are great thanks mvk jrconlin
17:24cmoreADavis: any questions for Nir? :)
17:24hoosteenodiane: What methods do companies use to discover hook opportunities?
17:25ADavisHow do you differentiate a habit from an addiction? Where do we draw the line?
17:25dianegot it adavis
17:25jrconlinADavis: follow up, how do you ensure you're not enabling a destructive behavior that is financially beneficial to you? (e.g. gambling, smoking, etc.)
17:26bsmedbergquestion for Nir: How do we as a user agent help people choose which habits they want to adopt and avoid the ones that they consider destructive?
17:26dianethese are great thanks bsmedberg jrconlin
17:26hoosteenodiane: you see me up there? ^
17:27dianethank you hoosteeno I got it now!
17:28mvkDiane: Nir, when you say Zuckerberg "understands psychology better than the average person", are you saying that the addiction model that has fueled FB's growth was intentional and that that is something that deserves investment?
17:29dianegot it mvk
17:30jrconlinWait, what? Hell yes folks would continue to use slack or other social networks, because they've invested in that society and seek to continue it.
17:30dianeok talking addiction now
17:33mvkUgh.... not a question but... if you are checking your phone every minute when eating/talking in person with others, thereby reducing your social bond and reducing your attention/connection with others, aren't you doing something that is "harmful" and is an addiction, not a "habit"? Ugh.
17:33jdavidsonMore of an existential question: Why should Firefox be habit-forming? (that is not a business reason)
17:33rfeeleydiane: How can product owners differentiate between signals for short term engagement and longer term addiction?"
17:33dianemvk maybe the questino is, "how do you decide what is harmful?"
17:33dianegot it rfeeley
17:34mvkGood question diane. Sorry I'm having a very visceral reaction to this
17:34dianeit means you care mvk :)
17:34jrconlinmvk: yeah, you're not alone.
17:35jcristaumvk: i think the answer was saying "addiction" is worse than saying "habit" as far as selling the book
17:35jrconlinThere's an undercurrent of manipulation here that is a bit appalling.
17:35jbradfordindeed
17:35jbradfordendemic in many people who built fortunes utilizing it
17:36jcristauhaha thanks for saying addictive diane :)
17:36dianejcristau here for you
17:36dianehope y'all listening here now
17:39jrconlinKinda presumes a fair bit of interest in product study by the consumer, there. Pretty sure it's not really present.
17:39mvkDidn't address the vendor lockin question
17:39dianemvk I know I will ask again time permitting - I bundled w/ too much other stuff!
17:39mvkNo problem diane thanks!
17:40jrconlinmvk: I believe he views that as a "habit" and that it's not a bad thing. "Consumers would note that it's bad and would leave". Yeah, no. they won't. Sunk cost fallacy.
17:40jcristautechnology as the universal solution... urgh.
17:41jbradford^^^^
17:41jbradfordjcristau++
17:42rfeeleydiane: Can you share any examples of experiences that attempted to hook users that backfired?"
17:42dianegot it rfeeley
17:43jrconlinBy the way, for folks interested in some of this, i'll recommend "Why We Buy" by Pablo Underhill and "You Are Not So Smart" by David McRaney. First describes psychology of marketing, second highlights how you delude yourself.
17:43ADavisdiane: During onboarding, do you believe it's better make it frictionless or do you believe it's a great opportunity to drive investment?
17:43dianeadavis got it - such good questionsssss!
17:43* jbradford has been consuming the You Are Not So Smart podcasts voraciously of late
17:45jrconlinBecause of return fees.
17:45* jrconlin used to work at Netflix. They were VERY upfront about why they won.
17:50jbradfordThe biggest shift to GApps was giving the service free to universities
17:50jbradfordthe hook 'em young tactic
17:53jdavidson(very interested in that vendor lock-in question - not sure if hes addressed that yet)
17:53dianejdavidson I asked it along with 2 other questions so it got buried -- will ask again if we have time
17:54jdavidson(And Im interested because of Mozilla's effort and passion around decentralization)
17:54jdavidsonthanks diane! if theres time - no worries if not
17:54dianeI want more time!
17:54* jbradford isn't so sure his answer will be what you're looking for but I am curious what he'll respond
17:55jrconlinjdavidson: if you don't get an answer, might want to think about how MS got office started (made the product reduce the cost of moving data out of the lock-in).
17:56jrconlinbut, yeah, not sure he sees it as a problem.
17:58jrconlinugh. "Just don't build products that are appealing to addictive personalities."
17:59dianeok got the lock in question mvk - think it'll be the last as we're at time
18:00jdavidsonjrconlin: interesting food for thought. is there any blog post/article around the history of office?
18:01mvkThis speaker embodied much of what is evil and undesirable in tech today.
18:01jdavidsonthanks for getting that in diane!
18:02mvkto say that companies are not responsible for user behavior... That it is up to "caretakers" to regulate that... That is horribly irresponsible and offensive to me
18:08dianenp jdavidson - it was a good one cc mvk
18:08dianewe'll share feedback with Nir too mvk so do share
18:17mvkthanks diane! I think the speaker stimulated discussion so that's a good thing and the program was well managed and presented. sometimes negative emotions can be of value.
18:18cmoreemotions are great and debating things that matter to us is very important. All good everyone.
18:18cmoreThanks for such great questions.
18:20dianeagree mvk cmore big time
16 Mar 2017
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